new at butterfly, quick question on workouts

Others may not like this, but as a person who learned fly after age 40, what I found helpful was using fins so I could feel it better. I would do some without, and then when I got more fatigued, I used fins. Or when learning the 400 IM, I used fins on the fly and did the rest without. At the time, it was the only way I could do it.

George and Dorothy: I agree. I used fins to re-learn fly and I use them now to train fly because of a cranky shoulder. I think it helps teach you to get your body in the right position and do the stroke correctly. (Geek would disagree, I know.) There is no sense at all in doing the stroke incorrectly or looking like a car wreck when you are fatigued. That will just teach you to do the stroke wrong. Or maybe cause an injury. Also, depending on your goals, you don't have to train that much fly to actually do it well in meets. The world's best Ian Crocker is on record as saying he trains almost 90% free! Start slow and build up. I never do more than a 100 fly consecutively in practice. I finally after 15 months of training did 10 x 50 flys in practice the other day. It was fun, but I felt it the next few days. I mix in fly/backs or other do lots of 100 IMs generally.

Solar: How old are you and do you have a history of shoulder problems? Are you talking about doing a 50 fly on a 55 second pace as part of 200? I can't do fly slow. I would sink. I think you're atypical, but hopefully people will chime in.

Others may not like this, but as a person who learned fly after age 40, what I found helpful was using fins so I could feel it better. I would do some without, and then when I got more fatigued, I used fins. Or when learning the 400 IM, I used fins on the fly and did the rest without. At the time, it was the only way I could do it. I wish I had thought of fins when I was learning the stroke. More than likely the best suggestion you will get.

I know I am fairly atypical, but still want to see if I'm alone in my camp. I can swim as much butterfly as I want, limited by the time available. I treat this stroke like any other and I can warm up swimming it as well. Any volume in excess of 200m is done on a 55sec/50m pace though, pretty much the same speed as breastroke. In fact, these strokes are very much alike, except that I can't lower a 50m breaststroke under 30s of course. Anyone else approaches butterfly this way? - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Fins to learn butterfly, great suggestion. That will make you save a great deal of time in learning to synchronise all the components with ondulation.

I think you're atypical, but hopefully people will chime in. Yeah I know. I'm a strange animal. I should mention that at this pace, my bf is pretty deep, even if I want to avoid it. I do all I can to stay at the surface, but still. It's fairly deep. I'm 38.

All the things Terry suggested are excellent and you should do them with or without fins. Pretend you're landing your chest on a pillow and keep your arms as relaxed as possible above the water. Terry is also right that you can get used to "flying" through the water with fins and then feel deflated when you take them off. So don't use them all the time. When I'm getting ready for a meet, I take them off and do 25s repeats without them to get back in the groove. Or expect that it might feel a little different when you take off the fins so your expectations about your times are in line. (Personally, I think it's about 10 seconds a 100 for SCY fly.) I think the most important thing is not to do the stroke incorrectly. This is really crucial for fly, I think. And it is what people way more experienced than me say too. If you need fins, use them for awhile to learn the stroke. I'm a novice, but seem to do OK in meets even though I am a fin user, and my fly times have improved each meet. Sometimes it feels different than with fins, but people actually compliment me on my fly form (unlike free where I am ragged on about overrotating and whatnot). People give me grief all the time about fins, but they have many advantages. Getting better at fly and learning all the items on Terry's list is one of those advantages. Even George agrees. Which means he is living in 2005, not 1955.

There is butterfly and there is butterfly, I would drown at 55 per 50, I guess that is why I only do 25s in practice now.

The best advice I can give is to relax and slow down. Use as much as possible your core body muscle, be easy on your arms, follow the natural frequency of your "wave". Control your breathing, slow down if you are running out of O2. It might take few tries to get the right rhythm and speed but it can be done...

Slow with fins and there you go !