USS times should count in USMS

Interesting that Rob Peel's swim is continually referenced in this discussion because that was swam at a US meet, not USMS meet; Specifically at the 1996 Olympic trials. Rob was doing 50 yard sprints before finals at my conference meet that February (1996), I think he went a 20.9 +/- .1 three times in about 10 minutes.

This website pool records section lists the 25-29 50 free scy record as Robert Peel 19.83 dated 5/19/91. That's 5 years prior to the 96 Olympic trials. He would have been 25 or 26. He would have been in the 30-34 age group in 1996 I think. So, apparently, that's how he got the 30-34 LCM USMS national record for the 50 free. So, you're right. It is interesting that Rob got a national record for 50 free LCM for the USMS without even swimming the race at a USMS meet and Sabir got denied, even though he swam both records at the 2004 USMS National Championship.

I am one who swims in both USS and USMS meets. I basically do the USS meets in the Fall until the kids start high school season then switch over to the masters meets. However, usually my "big" meet is with the kids the one I shave and taper for. I have achieved many top 10 times, however, I never bother to submit them. The whole process seems to complicated and time consuming to me. For me its about the love of the sport and trying to improve each year. That being said, I do cruise the top ten to see where I would have placed, I use that as my motivation. If I would have taken my big long course meet this past summer and stuck my times in the rankings at worlds, I would have been 3rd in the fly's in the 40yr age group. To me though its personal, improving my times is most important and where ever I may fall on the rankings so be it. At the USS meets, I could get last place for all I care but if I achieved a best time I would be satisfied. Greg

This website pool records section lists the 25-29 50 free scy record as Robert Peel 19.83 dated 5/19/91. That's 5 years prior to the 96 Olympic trials. He would have been 25 or 26. He would have been in the 30-34 age group in 1996 I think. So, apparently, that's how he got the 30-34 LCM USMS national record for the 50 free. So, you're right. It is interesting that Rob got a national record for 50 free LCM for the USMS without even swimming the race at a USMS meet and Sabir got denied, even though he swam both records at the 2004 USMS National Championship. Racer X Allan and Lefty: I can speak as an authority on this since I was the Michigan LMSC Top Ten Recorder at the time. Rob Peel set both of his Short Course Yards records in Nashville at the 1991 Short Course Nationals. He obviously turned in his birth certificate and the records were not approached for many years. In fact he is the first person to go under :20.00 and :45.00 seconds in masters. His :19.83 and :44.39 swim broke the National Records set by Kevin DeForest. At the time those were outstanding swims and he went faster than anyone in that age group for 13 years. He did these times before the 1992 Olympic Trials. In the 1992 Olympic Trials, Rob Peel finished 9th place just missing making the final with a time of :22.97 and missing the USMS National Record held by Kevin DeForrest with the outstanding time of :22.59 from the 1983 LC Nationals in the same pool at Indy. Because he did not get the back up information required by USMS, he was listed in the Top Ten with a :24.14 from the 1992 Worlds that were in Indy also and after the Trials because they were held early that year in March. He was beaten by two guys in the 1992 World meet. He was beaten by a German swimmer in the 25-29 age group named Olaf Ahlers who did a time of :23.64 and he was beaten by one Rowdy Gaines in the 30-34 age group with a time of :23.94. Rob continued to train up until the 1996 Olympic Trials and got 6th place with a time of :22.80 and beat Tom Jager the former Olympian in the event who got 7th place at :22.85. I remember this well because when Tom was interviewed by NBC he said he swam so bad that he didn't deserve to be on the Olympic team. He also said he was not even the fastest in his age group referring to Rob Peel. Rob was 30 at the time and Tom was 31. That :22.80 is a USMS record because he followed the USMS requirements at the time. It was not a FINA World Record because that was the first year that the FINA rule was instituted that stated "All World Records must be in Sanctioned Masters Meets", which I believe is still the policy today. One major change is that there was no requirement for a pool measurement if the swim was a non record in a bulkhead pool, which is not the case today. Rob Peel also set a SCM USMS Record in the 50 Free at :22.48 at the US Open in Ann Arbor in 1993. That swim was not a FINA World Record and has since been tied by Ed Wagner who did get credit for the World Record because he performed the swim at a Masters meet per FINA rules. I was at this meet and remember it well because Michigan Masters had two swimmers at the time set records at this meet (Rob Peel and Shelia Taormina) and paperwork had to be submitted for these records to count. www.michiganmasters.com/.../MISCYM.pdf www.michiganmasters.com/.../MILONGME06.pdf

This website pool records section lists the 25-29 50 free scy record as Robert Peel 19.83 dated 5/19/91. That's 5 years prior to the 96 Olympic trials. He would have been 25 or 26. He would have been in the 30-34 age group in 1996 I think. So, apparently, that's how he got the 30-34 LCM USMS national record for the 50 free. So, you're right. It is interesting that Rob got a national record for 50 free LCM for the USMS without even swimming the race at a USMS meet and Sabir got denied, even though he swam both records at the 2004 USMS National Championship. Racer X Allan: The reason Sabir Muhammed did not get credit for any of the three USMS National Records was because he did not get a copy of his birth certificate to USMS for record purposes. Myself, like Paul Smith and many others were a witness to probably the most outstanding sprint swimming in USMS history by the Race Club and in particular Sabir Muhaammed. Sabir went his best time ever in the 100 Yard Free and crushed the record of :44.39 with a time of :42.91 and was swimming next to Gary Hall Jr. at the time who went :44.27 and they both got the record. Obviously Gary got a copy of his birth certificate to USMS. Sabir best time in college was a :43.39 swimming for Stanford. His :19.44 was also a lifetime best when he broke the record of :19.83 in the 50 Free. Another record that you forgot to metion may be as impressive as the 100 Free Record. Sabir swam a :21.15 in the 50 Fly, breaking the record by over a second (22.16) and that was almost as fast as Paul Smith 50 Free of :20.95 at the same meet. This is hard to compare with with his best in the NCAA because they don't have a 50 Fly but he has the fastest relay split in history of :19.74 from the 200 Medley Relay from the 1998 NCAA Championships. He set an American Record of :46.18 in getting 2nd to Lars Frolander from SMU/Sweden who went :45.59 for the US Open and NCAA Record. He held the record for a year until Dod Wales did a :45.89 the next year. I think if he would have done the 100 Fly at this meet he could have possibly gone below :47.00 as a USMS swimmer and the crushed record of Brian Alderman of :48.51 from 1998 because of the way he swam that 100 Free. Everyone at the Nationals saw these swimmers because they basically stopped the meet to see them. Hall, Muhammed, and the others were hamming it up to get the crowds excited. And like Paul said they were treated like gods by everyone. Now I believe there is hope for Sabir to get these records. I believe the 60 day requirement is for the FINA records and I don't believe there is a statue of limitations for USMS records. I believe that pool measurements and timing tapes were sent in and the only responsibility he has to do is get that birth certificate in to get credit for those records. So the ball is in his court so to speak and if he doesn't care about it then his swims will basically be forgotten except for the people that saw them at the meet. I believe that his performances are the best to date of sprint swimming in USMS history. He took the 100 Free record and skipped the :43's completely and was only 1.29 seconds from the fastest 100 time ever recorded in 2004.

Yesterday in responding about Rob Peel records, I made two errors in my explanations. First Kevin DeForrest was the first person in masters to go under :45.00 and he had the record before Rob at :44.94 and second was the :22.48 that Rob did in the 50 SCM Free at the US Open was a FINA World Record because that swim was done in 1993 and FINA did not change the rule until two years later.

Paul: I agree completely with you that mediocrity, political correctness and enhancing kids' self esteem by constantly telling them how wonderful they are have taken over the world. Similarly, kids now do so many activities that they don't strive for excellence in anything. Children naturally want to excel, you don't need to instill this in them. When they fail, encourage them, let them know that it is alright and reward them for trying.