Freestyle Stroke Question

Congrats to you and good luck in the future, I am glad you found Terry's info so very important in your journey, I am sure you could never have done it without his help. I have never said that anything he says is false, but as I state I am also allowed to voice my opinions. If they are not helpful to you don't read my posts. May I also add I enjoyed your girlie cyclist post that you took down. I think you made a typo too (Actually I've haven't loss a race) (the I've should not be there and loss should be lost) !955 a typo error I am sure you have never made one oops. I must change it thanks for the tip on my erronious ways. If you ever have another typo in a post I will not even mention it. If you check all my posts I am sure you could find many.

Certainly you need to rotate in the long axis strokes, but I don't believe you can effectively "weight shift" in a fluid medium (like, say, a golfer or a baseball pitcher). I believe we can use "weight shift" in a fluid medium. I came to this conclusion more than a decade ago; I only heard about TI last year. In fact, we can use weight shift to various extent in all strokes. Lateral weight shift will best be felt swimming backstroke (at least as far as I'm concerned). Finally, I think it's possible thanks to the liquid nature of water.

The 22 to 25 lbs pressure per sq inch is from a person who knows the egineering and mechanics of the crawl stroke. How do you know when you are putting 22-25 lbs per sq inch of pressure? Is there a test determine when you have hit this range? How was it determined these numbers are the amount of pressure you believe a person should be putting on the water?

By the way, last night I swam a series of 6 x 100 (scy) Free repeats on 1:15 for the first time in my life (following 10 on 1:25 and 8 on 1:20). WooHoo. Congrats that is a hell of a set. This pace is certainly worth a top 10 at our national in (what I suspect as being) your age group. And I would agree that it is possible to have a normal sized body swimming freestyle pretty effortless at this speed. Those who can't probably already know about the importance of drilling. Problem is that at these speeds, for most of us, technical deterioration quickly kicks in, probably as a result of small muscles fatigue (those small muscles responsable for maintaining proper technique). We quickly loose distance per stroke and must start applying greater loads of efforts in order to keep the pace. Challenge is to mainain a steady distance per stroke throughout the set.

Leslie it is not that dificult to swim crawl it is only the way it is explained on this thread. Too many words. When I took a class in writing the professor said too wordy and that is what we have here.

And yes the reason why I continue to believe in core body rotation generated power is the one you just mentionned : Water does have enough resistance to have solid anchor points in it. originally posted by Solar Energy I will say that this seems to be the most logical conclusion made here (along with leonard Jansen, Terry, and others). I personally feel that wieght shifting in swimming is very similar to weight shifting on land ....just not as pronounced in many ways b/c liquid does not supply the same level of resistance as solid ground does....None-the-less I really think Terry is onto something here and its NOT just an illusionary "feeling"....often the reason there's a feeling (i.e. sensual clues from actually experimenting with these things in the water) is b/c there is an actual physical principal behind that sensation. Of course this is only my two cents worth (take it or leave t of course). Kirk where are you when we need you?? Why don't you use your engineering background to chime in on this debate here? Newmastersswimmer

I believe we can use "weight shift" in a fluid medium. Perhaps we're discussing different things. Terry has used the analogy of a baseball pitcher, a skater, a golfer, etc. I do not believe this analogy holds water (pun intended). Look, why do the astronauts train under water? Because the physics is different.

Problem is that at these speeds, for most of us, technical deterioration quickly kicks in, probably as a result of small muscles fatigue (those small muscles responsable for maintaining proper technique). We quickly loose distance per stroke and must start applying greater loads of efforts in order to keep the pace. Challenge is to mainain a steady distance per stroke throughout the set posted by Solar Energy I have been focusing a lot on this very aspect myself....I like to have a longer swim somewhere in my workouts (sometimes wearing hand paddles and sometimes without paddles)....I start of slow and try to really tune into the feeling of "smooth efficiency" and catching as much water as possible....long underwater dolphin kicking and tight streamlining off of every turn until I feel I have reached a comfortable "groove".....then I gradually try and pick up the pace every 100 or so untill I am moving at a rate that is beyond anerobic threshhold to maintain for too long ....while still trying to maintain the same overall "groove"...the same distance per stroke...streamlining...etc... Newmastersswimmer p.s. I really like your forum name Solar Energy.....I am a big supporter of Solar Energy myself....My feeling is that we should put more focus on utilizing Solar Energy in more creative ways (and environmentally safe ways) as opposed to many of the other directions being explored today....there is soooo many possibilities for doing this.....Why put so much into nuclear energy (or more specifically fusion such as cold fusion research ...etc) when we have a naturally occuring thermonuclear power plant at our disposal that has enough thermonuclear fuel to supply all of our energy needs and much much more for millions and millions of years?? Anyway, for all those of you who may think I went "way off topic" with these final remarks, ...We were discussing "energy efficiency" in this thread right?....just not exactly in the same way as I'm referring to here....just a small accidental oversight on my part is all ..so relax...LOL!!

Perhaps we're discussing different things. Terry has used the analogy of a baseball pitcher, a skater, a golfer, etc. I do not believe this analogy holds water (pun intended). Look, why do the astronauts train under water? Because the physics is different. I don't particularly like the baseball pitcher analogy neither. On that angle, I concur with Maglischo's latest statement on this topic (found in the 3rd edition of his book). Feet and even hips are so far from the real anchor points in freestyle (namely hands). Really, I like to use a much simpler analogy to qualify weight shift in swimming freestyle. That of starting a relunctant gazoline fueled "lawn mower". The body twist we typically use to add more power to our motion would equate to the upward body motion while swimming free style. And for the downward body motion, given that I synchronize it with the downsweep occuring while catching, I would compare it to the action of wedging a waterpolo ball (or a water polo opponent ;) )

If I were a scientist I would gladly tell how they found a desired Lbs per sqare inch. In the 50s he checked the propulsion by a mechanical hand when the fingers are open or closed. He said it was the same except with the fingers closed your hand and forearm has tension. Sorry I was not there to see it. He told me the maximum force you can apply is actually 23lbs per square inch but when I explain it I use a range of 22 to 25 so I lied but I do say max it, but don't over do it. If over 23 your effort is of no value. I guess it is similar to how they measure propulsion from the screw on a propelor. But this is for the topic we are not on a marathon swim. I would ask him but he is dead.