Freestyle Stroke Question

I think we are now entering a time that we should throw away all the books from the guys like Councilman, Maglischo etc etc - a new day is comming when they release the data on the new supersonic torpedos being developed, we will be flying through the water higher than the speed of sound.

I don't particularly like the baseball pitcher analogy neither. On that angle, I concur with Maglischo's latest statement on this topic (found in the 3rd edition of his book). Feet and even hips are so far from the real anchor points in freestyle (namely hands). Really, I like to use a much simpler analogy to qualify weight shift in swimming freestyle. That of starting a relunctant gazoline fueled "lawn mower". The body twist we typically use to add more power to our motion would equate to the upward body motion while swimming free style. And for the downward body motion, given that I synchronize it with the downsweep occuring while catching, I would compare it to the action of wedging a waterpolo ball (or a water polo opponent ;) ) I think the weight shift is more of an observation of what is going on that what is really happening. What preceeds that "weight shift" is the body twist. Look at a pitchers back foot. The toes and knee turn in and point toward the plate just before the hips rotate and generate power. Hitting a baseball is the same thing. Toes and knee turn in, hips rotate, arms and hands follow with more force. I don't see how swimming is all that different. Its harder to see since your upper body is also involved in setting the movement up rather than just following your core. While your kick and opposite arm set up the anchor for the body twist, your hand and forarm are setting up the catch. Then your hips rotate to increase power through the pull. My experience is far less than those here, but it seems pretty simple to me. Perhaps I am wrong about this? Kevin

But a baseball player is pushing his foot against a solid surface.

Hey gull it may work if you apply 23lbs per sqare inch pressure. I still believe the leg movement is to keep the legs in the pocket and not to cause drag.

I think the weight shift is more of an observation of what is going on that what is really happening. This is possible, especially for the upward body motion *power* (if any :rolleyes: ). But a baseball player is pushing his foot against a solid surface. You know, I can't rule out the possibility of being wrong. As Mswimming says, it may be more a feeling or an observation more than what's really happening. On the downward body motion the weight shift can be real indeed though. But most of the time I don't really use it (I prefer to glide a bit more, which breaks the potential synchronization between downward body motion and the catch).

On the downward body motion the weight shift can be real indeed though. Gees I'm lucky. I found an example of what I meant here. Click on watch video. This swimmer is syncrhonizing his catch with downward body motion. When swimming like this, I think it's truly possible to use (partial) weight shift on the catch to ease up the first part of the pull through phase. www.goswim.tv/drilloftheweek_comments.php Disclaimour : I have no opinion on the content of the article per se. I only provided this link to show a potential example of what I'd call weight shift in swimming.

Congrats that is a hell of a set. This pace is certainly worth a top 10 at our national in (what I suspect as being) your age group. And I would agree that it is possible to have a normal sized body swimming freestyle pretty effortless at this speed. Those who can't probably already know about the importance of drilling. Problem is that at these speeds, for most of us, technical deterioration quickly kicks in, probably as a result of small muscles fatigue (those small muscles responsable for maintaining proper technique). We quickly loose distance per stroke and must start applying greater loads of efforts in order to keep the pace. Challenge is to mainain a steady distance per stroke throughout the set. I guess this is another one of those terminology issues. To me the word "effortless" implies a lack of effort which implies not taxing or fatiguing. If you are working hard enough to for fatigue to be causing stroke deterioration aren't you applying some effort? If effortless means something other than without effort is there another way to describe what your describing? I am honestly not trying to be pedantic, it is just that when people describe swimming as effortless I don't know what they mean if they aren't referring to swimming relatively slowly. :dunno:

I have yet to see anyone win without effort. Everyone told me it looked effortless. I told them I only swim fast enough to win (lied) it was all out. It may have looked effortless but it was not.

Actually George's video of Thorpe is interesting, I think you could support two different theories of swim timing by watching the timing of his left and right pulls. In one case his catch starts as he finishes the opposite pull, in the other he is well into his recovery before starting his catch. I've never really known how to deal with conflicting advice on whether to swim with continuous propulsion like kayaking or with some glide/a bit of catchup. Maybe Ian decided to go for a little of both? ;)

5 am in the morning must be important or did I just need a coffee. This is how to do it. Thorpe www.youtube.com/watch I think I can see how imporant his big toe is in this swim.