Weight Training

Gullo, Can you describe the exercises you do with stretch bands please? Also, what exercises were you advised not to do? If you prefer not to answer on the site I would appreciate an e-mail for the answers to the above questions. Gil ggilswim@aol.com

Gull80, Sorry I read your moniker wrong!

Coach Wayne MacCauley opined "Come on, do you really think that doing gym weight workout and following up with aerobic training (swimming) will erase some of the training effect? That is beyond belief." Let me refer interested readers to "Exercise Physiology: Energy, Nutrition and Human Performance," which was my source for the concern about weights followed by aerobic exercise. It is a medical text with extensive references to original research articles. Since this is outside of my field of expertise, I cannot give an authoritative, critical evaluation of the claim. If you can wait until this evening, I'll dig up the page number, give you the exact quotation, and any cited studies.

WAyne. I was talking about the NORMAL person. A lot of what you say is true , also good common sense. But what I am talking about is people That train and compete on occasion. Of course there are people who are coached. And train almost evrey day. But be that asit may , I still liked your thoughts. But I gather from , you must really physically be in excaptional shape.:) :cool:

Dominick I am talking about normal swimmers. I am not in exceptional shape, in fact very poor shape. But having done masters swimming for 20 years and weight workouts for 18, I can swim well in poor shape. I used to teach Nautilus back in the 80's, and have coached swimming for 15 years. Even when out of shape I can get to 800 pounds on the inclined squat machine. One thing I learned while taking the American Swim Coaches Assiciation educational courses is that any physiology book over 5-6 years old should be thrown in the trash.:D Certainly what I learned in college is totally been replaced with real knowledge. "Exercise Physiology: Energy, Nutrition and Human Performance," was released: 15 January, 2001 so at least it is recent. At $75 you must really be into it. How much of this large volume is devoted to swimming? And at what level, research level, NCAA Division III level, or the big boys like Stanford and Texas? I have read many research articles that begin with "using trained athletes" when they are using people so far down the athletic totum pole it is funny. I would like to read this if it has useful information directed at world class swimmers. And for the most part, researchers can come to any opinion they favor at the moment.:mad: But what is working in the real world to produce champions is usually pretty good science, or at least emperically good. That is why most researchers stay in the labs because they can't coach - except for the great Doc Councilman. Conniekat8, do you keep a log of your workouts? I would bet that your yardage is pretty high. Even the slow lanes get in 3000+ yards in an hour, the fast lanes get in 4500+. If you want to get faster, get in the gym as well as the pool. As little as 15% improvement in strength can make huge improvements in swimming times. There are certain small muscle groups that are indicators of how fast you can swim. You are really only as fast as your weakest muscles. Leonard Jansen, what you say has real merit at a very high athletic level. Most masters are like Rusty and myself. It really helps prevent injuries by swimming after weights. One thing many coaches do not do correctly is time trials. Most teams have sprints or time trials at the end of a workout. Doing them at the start would lead to injuries. But after 20 minutes all intermuscular glycogen is depleted, you are really not sprinting as you cannot utilize the anerobic first 10 -14 seconds that this system allows in trained swimmers. Swimming after 15 minutes of controlled warmup can lead to true time trials in workouts. Wow, this is a great thread, lots of good discussion. Nobody flaming anyone else, good information being exchanged. Minds being opened. Coach Wayne McCauley ASCA Level 5

I'm looking at "Exercise Physiology: etc." by McArdle Katch and Katch, 5th edition. On page 519 it says "Resistance Training Plus Aerobic Training Equals Less Strength Improvement. Concurrent resistance and aerobic training programs yield less muscular strength and power improvement than training for strength only." It suggests a 20 to 30 minute recovery period between aerobic and strength training, but cites the need for further research to support this. Four research papers are cited in this paragraph, two of which speak to this particular issue. It does not say whether the subjects are slackers or olympians. There is no claim that you shouldn't do both aerobic and strength training in the same day, just that you need a break in between. The claim is that the diminished training effect would apply to the strength-building aspect, but not necessarily the aerobic or athletic skill aspects. The book contains a few specific stats on swimming, such as VO2max versus speed, further categorized by stroke and fitness level. There are also parts devoted to the heat dissipation ability of water versus air, which is something that affects swimmers. Overall it is very broadly sports-targeted, however. I got the book mainly to understand the biochemical mechanisms by which macronutrients are converted to energy, and what the implications are to proper nutrition for active people. At the risk of stirring up controversy, nothing I have read in this book speaks favorably of low-carb diets, especially for athletes. (Don't blame the messenger!) There is something else I read which is likely to churn up discussion. On page 482, it says that in a study of collegiate swimmers, one group trained for 90 minutes daily, while another group trained for two 90 minute sessions daily. Surprisingly, no differences were observed in swimming power, endurance, or performance times. This suggests a point of diminishing returns exists around 90 minutes. Have at it....

A lot hasto do with age. Also how hard you weight train or swim. Also the duration of weights and swimming time. Also recouprating. Also if you are a beginner of swimming or weight training. Or if at a younger age you did these phyiscal actives. You then have a base for either activeity. But rule of thumb , is tif you are in the weight room one day then do not swim that day . Unless you weight train 15 - 20 minutes and are ging to swim 15 minutes. but if you are swimming say 2500-meters , then dont weight train that day.Same goes for weights then dont swim.:) :cool:

Dominick, I agree totally on age. Men are full of Testosterone and grow muscle mass easily, up until the middle to late thirties. After that it is not produced as easily and tapers off. Additionally other hormones that rebuild cell structure tapers off in production as we age. At age 35 I could do an hour of maximun effort weight workout every other day, and recover fully. By 45 I had to go to every third day, my body just could not recover in 48 hours. But I disagree with you on swimming the same day as weights. Come on 2500 meters is nothing, even after a hard weight workout. There is nothing like a swim workout of 3500 to 4000 yards (about an hour) to pump out the muscles after a hard weight day. There are other ways to do the same as swimming after weights, all expensive. Oxygen therapy followed by 10-15 minutes in a jacussi, followed by an hour of quality massage ($90)will help recovery from the weights almost as much as a swim workout. It takes over 1500 meters just to warmup properly. Do you really think elite swimmers arround the world do nothing else the day of a weight workout? Every day they do weights, they swim. And some days they swim twice, after a weight workout. If they don't, someone else in the world will and will be gaining an advantage. And they hit the weights much harder than most of us swimmers. If you can't swim after doing weights, it is a mental thing and not physical.:p Much in life is mental blockage. For years I could not go above 500 pounds on the inclined squat machine (leg press), which simulates the starting block and pushoffs perfectly. Then one day a little lady a the gym challenged my to compete with this guy much bigger than me, with huge thighs of STEEL. We did not stop that day untill we got to 30 reps at 920 pounds. And it did not hurt the next day. The barrier was all in my mind. Since then I have gone to 1125 pounds on this machine. Coach Wayne McCauley ASCA Level 5

Wayne I commend you on your poundage. Awsom. And that is in shape or out of shape. But I must tellyou I can only get 2500 meters in a hour. But I can weight train after that. But I will surlly need Recouperation time for at least two days. When i weight train I can go two solid hours. The next i can swim asolid two hours .But not in the same day.Mind you I do 2500 meters none stop free style all the way. Any way how old are you and how much do you weigh .DOM:)

Wayne. My problem is I like the gym to much. True I am not a fast swimmer. Also I am Self coached. I do compete on occasion. But for sure I do not break any sound barriers. When i am in the gym my first half hour is ab excerise. But I donot always do weights. I rotate aroun d various excerise. Untill I left N. Y. One of my excerises was boxing. Which cnsisted of various excerises. But manily on different speed bags and double end bags. Also the big bag. Each Has a different purpose. Also true I am not built like aswimmer. I am 5 feet 6 inches 125 lbs. 70 yrs. Old .OH' I do need more rest in between sets , than i did at say 40 50 years of age. DOM