I am going to add some USRPT training later because I love the idea of fast feedback. I tried a set last October, with target time 2'5" / 100 m (5 seconds faster than the pace on a recent 1500 m T/T) (although not strictly in adherence because I started every 2'20" instead of 2'25" for 20 seconds rest) and within a week I pushed my first failure from 8 to completing all 30, requiring me to "level up". I tried reducing the target time by 5 seconds / 100 m but it became too hard such that I couldn't get through the initial 5.
Afterwards the pool I used closed so I didn't continue this training, but I am looking to resume it when the pool reopens again next week. I will take a 1500 m T/T the first time I get back to the pool.
I consider that a pace is too easy if I can complete all 30 reps without a failure, and too hard if I can't get through the initial 5. How should I identify my initial goal time? Is directly using the 1500 m T/T pace good enough, or should I reduce a few seconds? And if I need to level up, how many seconds should I take away for each 100 m?
I am currently targeting my 1500 m speed in these few months, however eventually I will need to race for 5 km a few months later, and 15 km next year, and will need to modify the workout for that? Does anyone have any hints or should I return to traditional training by then? I want to build up my speed first, then endurance second, because I can swim for 5 - 7 km continuously without problem now, but at a very slow speed (around 2 hours for 5 km).
I think you should do it zero times a week. If I remember correctly, you say you are in your 20s, and want to hold 2:05/100 pace. That tells me you most likely have some work to do in your stroke technique. Gutting out a bunch of "race pace" 100s is a perfect way to reinforce bad habits, which should be the exact opposite of what you want to do, motivational or not.
Agreeing with Jeff here. Your main focus right now should be swimming with good technique. Instead of USRPT where you try to hit a given time on a given rest interval until fail, try this variation: pick a target time, try to swim it with PERFECT TECHNIQUE, and then keep going not until you miss the target time, but until your technique falls apart.
And if you can't tell when your technique has fallen apart, then it reinforces what Jeff and others are saying: take more time to focus on your stroke before jumping into something like USRPT.
If you're not going to ever entertain anyone else's advice that contradicts your preconceived notions, why do you continue to ask questions?
I just want training methods which can bring my time down faster than when I was on my own previously!
I joined a squad a few months ago, but only in the technique-oriented sessions (I can't get to speed of the other sessions yet), and the coach has already corrected me some faults in my technique, but I am not able to judge if it has been translated into improvement in the past 8 weeks because the pool I use normally is closed for annual maintenance, and I swim in a pool of different length now. She has given me two advice:
* stop working on my stroke length increase my stroke rate (she has noticed me have better form when swimming faster)
* swim more to get more fitness such that I can sustain higher stroke rate
These two advice completely contradict my preconceived notions (try to increase my stroke length by technique improvement, such that I swim with less effort so that I can go faster without increasing fitness) and I feel very uncomfortable, however, I am trusting her temporarily in these few months, perhaps up to a year, to see if I can really improve because she is known to produce marathon swimmers. If so, I continue, if not, it's money down the drain and I will switch club.
I have been chasing her for availability for a professional 1-1 session since the end of last year, where we will sort out everything. A lot of pools are closed for annual maintenance now so it is difficult to get availability! If I can get one, I won't be so frustrated and keep posting questions here! Before then, I just want training method which can bring my down time in a short period! (I am expecting to have at least 1 minute improvement per month for 1500 m until I get down to 28 minutes)
I still do not think someone of your ability level should be trying to pound out 30x100 :20 RI at race pace, especially not on a regular basis.
What will happen if I try to do it twice a week? USRPT is the training method which can give me the most motivation because I can see if I can get improvement literally every session, like playing computer games. USRPT encourages me to push my limit, while traditional training teaches me pacing well, and now my main focus is speed over anything else.
I agree that good technique is paramount, but keeping motivated is also important. Generally for USRPT one sets their goal time based on their goal for swimming in a race. You seem to have set it based on extrapolations from a timed 1500. This is going to be closer to giving you a VOmax time than a USRPT time.
Building your speed before building your endurance is certainly backwards by conventional wisdom, but also certainly USRPT builds endurance. If you want to focus on speed then focus on speed. I'd suggest setting a 200 goal time, divide that by 4 and take that as your goal time, then 20 sec rest and go again. Rushall says not to worry about failure in the first 5 as your body is getting used to the work. If your first failure then is at 6, fine, failure leads to adaptation. Will this help you 1500, absolutely(as long as technique improves.) As Dave Salo says"all my swimmers are sprinters, the 1500 is just a long sprint". Granted his swimmers are elite, but having the ability to "get into a higher gear" is useful.
My 2 cents:
I'm not an expert or "convert" to USRPT, but I've generally followed a USRPT program (adapted to age and ability) over the past 6 months to train for a 1200 M open water swim. It has worked, IMHO, and it has been motivating.
30 X 100M on a goal time for 1500 with :20 rest worked for me, though it took a few weeks to understand the conditions that led to the best improvements in both speed and endurance. The trick for me seemed to be to set the goal time so as to be able to get to first fail at ca. 12, but not to drop the goal time until able to fail only once in 30. Once I got that deep with only one fail I dropped my goal time by 1 second (not 5!). By the time the 1200 M rolled around I was able to do a time similar to what I did about 4 years ago (before shoulder surgery), about 1:35/100 (assuming the course was accurate). Also, my aerobic capacity has significantly improved over past years. (And, for the first time ever, I'm losing excess weight swimming - all that aerobic work, I think).
One adaptation to my age has been to not swim every day, but every other day. At 60 yrs (and with shoulder issues in the past) managing recovery is more important than managing effort. If you're younger, you might be able to improve more quickly.
The swimming was also accompanied by religious adherence to my physiotherapy regime - including resistance band work before and after each swim. I recommend getting into a good physiotherapist for shoulder work to every swimmer, regardless of age.
As for developing speed, I'm now shifting to sets of 50M based on my 200 M goal time, and sets of 25M on :15 rest for 100 goal time, across the four strokes. Feels like lifting weights, but I'm happy with it so far. Best thing is I am confident I can expect improvements.
I agree that, at 2 min per 100 for a 1500 you really need to focus on technique to improve speed, but unlike others, I think USRPT is actually a very good forum for technique work, if approached with the right mindset. In particular, sets of 25 to 30 X 25M on :15 rest allow me to really focus on my technique for each 25. Failure in such sets is (should be) as much a failure of technique as it is of any conditioning - if you've found the right goal time.
Never, ever, simply slog away with junk miles in the water. Swimming is like dance - power without technique is hazardous, but good technique requires strength. You gotta always work on both. Workout with a purpose and with a plan (unless you want to fund a surgeon's retirement).
This is all one big experiment for me, but so far, so good.
Are you sure it's not? My 1500 pace is about 11-12 seconds slower than what I could do in a race 100. On a push 100 it's definitely in the 10 seconds range. Granted, my pace is faster than yours, so on a percentage basis it's not the same, but I wouldn't just assume you can't hold a 1:50 pace if you have good endurance.
By the way, for pace sets I like a 2:1 swimming to rest ratio. So let's say you want to do 100s and can hold 1:50. That means you'd want to do them on 2:45 (110 seconds swimming, 55 seconds resting).
My top 100 m time has been around 1:40 for many years already with a push off, but my 1500 m started off 35 minutes, and still around in the region of 30 - 31 minutes now.
I also noticed there was an extreme drop off from my 100 to 200 time, like from 1:40 / 100 m to 3:52 / 200 m, so I worked on it last year and brought it down, but still haven't reached 3:30 yet. I was feeling lack of air at those speed. 200 m was about my length for the anaerobic threshold, and for 400 m and more I was basically doing what I do in 1500 m.
From 100 m to 400 m my drop off is ridiculous, but from 400 m to 1500 m I can hold the pace is relatively well.
Does that mean I should work on my 200 / 400 speed primarily instead of blowing out 30 x 100 at 1500 pace?
My 2 cents:...
Never, ever, simply slog away with junk miles in the water. Swimming is like dance - power without technique is hazardous, but good technique requires strength. You gotta always work on both. Workout with a purpose and with a plan (unless you want to fund a surgeon's retirement).
....
Very well said! Mind if I use this quote for an upcoming Tri class?
However, the coach has noticed me that my technique is actually better when I'm swimming faster, let's say, 1:50 / 100 m, if I can make it, but it is clearly unsustainable. (1:40 / 100 m is my all out speed for a single 100 m).
Are you sure it's not? My 1500 pace is about 11-12 seconds slower than what I could do in a race 100. On a push 100 it's definitely in the 10 seconds range. Granted, my pace is faster than yours, so on a percentage basis it's not the same, but I wouldn't just assume you can't hold a 1:50 pace if you have good endurance.
By the way, for pace sets I like a 2:1 swimming to rest ratio. So let's say you want to do 100s and can hold 1:50. That means you'd want to do them on 2:45 (110 seconds swimming, 55 seconds resting).
Why? I am not a "true believer" but I find USRPT sets to be a valuable tool. For me, USRPT doesn't overload the anaerobic systems enough so I also do HIIT sets. I am a "believer" in mostly race pace work, why train yourself to swim slow? I also do drills, lift weights and taper for meets, none of which are in USRPT dogma, but I still find it a valuable tool and they are challenging sets. YMMV
Thanks Allen, that's exactly what I meant when I said I was not a "true believer". Honestly, the crux of USRPT sets is the same stuff I was doing when I was a young teen and on through high school and college. I just don't subscribe to the Michael Andrew/Rushall notion that you ONLY do USRPT and forget all the rest. However I have nothing against anyone who does subscribe to that philosophy. There's more than one way to skin a cat here.
