Approach to teaching competitive swimming?

Rainman writes: " it's a cleverly packaged product consisting of stuff that 95% of educated coaches already knew and were teaching, incorporated as a small piece of the larger training regimen. " Interesting. I'd say that 95% of the people who I have worked with that have extensive prior experience swimming under coaches espouse the fact that, for the most part, they've never been taught this stuff before.

Originally posted by Ion Beza ... I still don't get the mechanisms of "...no kick...", "...minimize drag..." and "maximize propulsion..." ... ... Tackling whole programs like Total Immersion would be overkill for me, since I find my query diluted in a turn-off mass of sales pitch intended for middle-aged master swimmers hoping for short cuts to physical conditioning, and diluted in a mass of generalities that are, like Rain Man writes, well known to age-group swim coaches and not tailored to individual swimmers in in-depth programs. I know that Total Immersion claims to have adopted principles from Popov's workouts. However I also know that it discards, unfairly I think, Popov's emphasis in strong kicking with a board, his intense training with a pull-buoy, and his reliance on physical conditioning when, in preparation for the 50 meter and 100 meter freestyle sprints at the 2000Olympics, he stepped up for two years the weekly mileage at in between 80 and 90 kilometers. I am wondering about these mechanisms in a nutshell, in order to figure out what is the meat.

If "these mechanisms" could be taught in a nutshell, say a few (or few dozen) paragraphs, such that you, or anyone else, could just read and do without a significant investment of practice, thought, analysis, repetition, exploration etc....well...then someone would have written it, everyone would have done it, you would have already had the success you crave and we wouldn't be having this conversation. The closest thing to "in a nutshell" you will find is my book, Terry's books, the articles on the web sites etc. It sounds like YOU are looking for a shortcut to better technique. You have also, in my estimation, been using hard training as a shortcut, of sorts, perhaps hoping that simply swimming longerharderandfaster will make you a better swimmer. Except in the extremely rare instance of the True Natural Elite Athlete, it won't. For the overwhelming majority of us only working on your technique will improve technique. All the conditioning in the world won't make up for poor technique if you are really striving to reach your potential as a swimmer.

Originally posted by emmett ... It sounds like YOU are looking for a shortcut to better technique. You have also, in my estimation, been using hard training as a shortcut, of sorts, perhaps hoping that simply swimming longerharderandfaster will make you a better swimmer. Except in the extremely rare instance of the True Natural Elite Athlete, it won't. For the overwhelming majority of us only working on your technique will improve technique. All the conditioning in the world won't make up for poor technique if you are really striving to reach your potential as a swimmer. Emmett, in order for me to believe in a swimming program, there has to be obvious evidence of a coach's personal success. I mean by a coach's evidence of personal success, coaching like Mike Bottom (US) allegedly does, like Nagyi (Hun) allegedly did coach Borrowman (US), or the coach having been a good competitor. Speaking of such a coach's personal success, the best I was exposed to in detail, was when I started swimming in 1984 and saw almost every day until 1986, Guy Boissiere (Fra.) coaching Stephane Caron (Fra.). The coach took Stephane Caron and other stars, from kids learning how to swim, to senior competitors. Caron won a bronze medal in 100 meter free in 1988SeoulOlympics, and a bronze medal in 1992BarcelonaOlympics. In Barcelona he defeated Matt Biondi (US). Boissiere's work outs didn't have Total Immersion claims. I have written some of them in a diary I keep, since 1984. When Boissiere was saying something at that time, I was believing it then and I believe it now. I wrote my previous post about Total Immersion, the way I judged its claims when I was in Tennessee in 1999 and 2000, and the LMSC newsletter was describing it in many long articles.

of whether to train for endurance or technique will go on forever, I think, but is really quite silly. Until skills are adequate a swimmer should concentrate on technique - the 'Piano Man' was not learning how to be a faster or better swimmer by training hard. In fact, probably a worse swimmer, just as it is a waste of time for me to do breastroke at intense levels - my stroke is such that I would only make my bad habits even more habitual. TI and Emmett are doing a great service to the swimming community by making this clear. While it should be obvious, there are still many, if not most, swimmers and coaches that emphasize the intervals over the stroke work when strokes need improvement. It is also the way I swam most of my swimming career. As skills improve the swimmer should start to incorporate more training for endurance and strength - the best swimmers are in good shape. If you want to be at that level, you need to train. But to think that because Popov swam 80 to 90 km a week (!) he did not pay *constant* attention to his stroke would be a mistake. As Emmett pointed out, strokes degrade, and Popov with a poor stroke would not be a great swimmer. I agree with Rain Man that TI does seem to teach a style that may not be perfect for everyone. I am thinking in particular of the very divergent styles of some of the best women swimmers, such as Janet Evans or Brooke Bennett, and some of the best male swimmers that have 'hitches' or 'lopes' in their stroke. One should be careful of saying that 'they could be so much better if they only . . .' Who are we kidding? They are already the best in the world. There are many ways to get to the same place. Kicking with a board has been a training aid for most world class swimmers, and their strokes are fine. I'm sure we have or will have champions that have only done vertical kicking, and their strokes are fine too. You can just call me "Obvious Man." Finally, you are a faster swimmer if you apply more power more efficiently. The problem with faster turnover is that the efficiency may get degraded if stroke work is not done at *all* levels of intensity. If you are not thinking about your stroke, every stroke, every set, you are not using your time the best way you can.

Ion - I have had conversations with Misty Hyman and other swimmers in the Stanford swimming program. You can't get much more 'success' than the Stanford coach has had. They do TI-type drills *every* workout. The two different workshops I attended by Stanford swimmers were like TI redux. As I just said, you know where (just) hard work will get you.

My turn to put another 2 cents in... The first drill videos I was exposed to were the Stanford series made by Quick and Skip. TI (drillsets) are for the most part the same drills put together in a slightly different way. Why is TI though so more overwhelmingly popular? Coach Laughlin's a great salesman. Same stuff, Emmett I can't believe you have 95% of swimmers you say were not taught it. The first thing I thought when viewing the TI videos were "Hmmm, just like the Stanford videos." It's been around forever. Let me clarify one thing as well. I do not advocate blind yardage at all. I think that is one of the most ridiculous ways to approach coaching age group swimmers. I do however like to mix up speeds a lot. Example 50 or 100 yard repeats build by 25, or 50 smooth/50 fast. Always emphasizing long and powerful strokes but increased turnover to go faster. And it works. We have an 11 yr. old with a decent backstroke who is *painfully* graceful in the water swim 1:30 (age 10), 1:31 (age 10), and 1:29 (aged up to 11) in 3 successive meets. The 1:29 was a prelim race and all we worked on during finals warm-up was increased turnover. I'd say (not having written anything down) she probably took a couple more strokes per length, but she went 1:24. So what I was getting at (I think some of my words have been misinterpreted or misconstrued in some way) was that you can't stop at drills when it comes to racing. And coaches do. They drill and drill and swim long and smooth then longer and smoother and then the kids get into a race and gracefully swim nowhere near their potential. Take the next step and teach how to race. I would agree that for the most part, 9-12 year olds need more technique than training, but they also must do some yardage. And any good coach will pay attention and make sure that their strokes aren't breaking down. My main gripe with TI is that they foster this kind of approach to swimming and then tell people that others are going about it in the totally wrong way. That's a farce, others are doing the same drills TI does, and then are taking the steps to improve actual competetive swimming. It's infiltrating age group swimming because the coaches are middle-aged swimmers buying into TI as swimming gospel. Another thing they do is mislead by using people like Popov as their main examples. That's great, Biondi was a long smooth swimmer too but what do they have to say for the likes of Ervin and Klim (highly successful I think) who take 3 strokes to each 2 by Popov. They ignore them because they don't fit into their ideology. I think what I'm fed up with is what seems to be quite the egotistical manner in which the TI community has presented itself. Getting an individual response out of them is like pulling teeth. Every response is read our book, buy our video, stay long, do the drills, blah blah blah. Not every swimmer falls into one mold. And that's what is being fostered.

Originally posted by Philip Arcuni Ion - I have had conversations with Misty Hyman and other swimmers in the Stanford swimming program. You can't get much more 'success' than the Stanford coach has had. They do TI-type drills *every* workout. The two different workshops I attended by Stanford swimmers were like TI redux. As I just said, you know where (just) hard work will get you. Okey Dokey. Starting this Friday I have an appointment for a close to one hour stroke correction here with a coach strong on NCAA background. So, I give a better try to technique improvement than until now, even though I am skeptical about shaving seconds with it. Regarding Stanford, I was working in the Silicon Valley in 1995 and 1996, I was training there in Masters, I saw many of their varsity stars and practices. My impression was that Stanford doesn't do much on drills and technique improvements, but it does recruit well developed age-group talents from accross US, and grows them mature with (well executed you, Phil, would say) yardage.

Ion- I think you are over-analyzing yourself a bit too much. That could be part of your problem. I think one thing everyone trying to help you out is more or less saying is find the correct combination of stroke work and yardage to get you back on track with your times from '94. Never having seen you swim, I will be going out on a big limb here to offer advice, but here goes... Check your wall-work. More races are won and lost on the turns at the highest competetive levels than anywhere else in the stroke. Proof? Watch NCAA women 4x100 free relay from this year and watch the 2nd swimmer from Auburn (Coparropa) pass Danielle Becks of Cal on turn 3. You'll fully appreciate the value of a good turn. Go hard into and out of. A good turn technique progression is 1- swim 3 strokes into a flip and repeat down the pool (don't do any turns at the wall yet). Focus on using your swimming speed to initiate the turn. No "glide-turns" i.e. stop swimming and glide into the flip. Time it so your last stroke pulls you into a flip. 2. Now practice at the wall. Many repeats from 5-6 yards out, swim into a flip. No touching the wall yet, be patient. 3. Now practice the foot plant on the wall. Swim in from 5-6 yards at high speed, flip and plant the feet. Do this until you are comfortable with your foot placement on the wall. 4. Streamline to side from drill 3. This will take some work to find the fastest possible way for you to flip, plant, push off, and strealine to your side. After that you are golden, short quick kick, pull with the bottom arm, no breath, and go. Always work your turns in practice, or else you will be doing those 1 second slower turns all practice then expect to miraculously pick up the speed at a meet... impossible. Swim in a line. I was taught this back when I learned to swim, have taught it from the time I started coaching, and now of course it's been *re-invented* by TI (poke a little fun for Emmett). Basically it boils down to minimizing extraneous movement. Is your head always stable? If not, guaranteed you will throw your stroke off, and moreso as you race and become tired. Always swim in a line. You can do slow swim 25's sans breathing to verify this. Head stable, hands enter at or near shoulder-width (preferably). Add breathing to get comfortable with breathing while maintaining the line and returning to it. Next, one of the main things I've been harping on... learn to take your controlled in-line stroke to the next level. Vary speeds during your workout. 15x100 on 1:20 does you no good if you go 1:15 each time. Try 8x100 on 2:00 or 2:30 but learn to take the practice stroke to race pace, say 1:05's. To do this, the turnover must increase with minimal "slippage" effect. The reason the interval is much slower is to allow proper recovery to ensure that you can swim race pace with good form each time. Do 200's, 300's on ample intervals that you can alternate 50 smooth/25 fast throughout the 200 or 300. Build 75's or 150's. Vary the distance. Just because you specialize in the 100 and 200, you don't have to swim purely 100's and 200's at practice. Some "burnout" sets are occasionally necessary, quick interval, little rest, lungs bursting, muscles aching... but don't overdo them. The majority of your practice should be sets that focus on control and form (and TURNWORK!) or the fast-paced sets with ample rest. Speedwork is extremely important to maintain a competetive level of swimming. Hope that helps you out a little. Good luck, and no more complaining. Erase the slate, set a goal of improving the few aspects that I and others have mentioned, and go after it. -RM

Originally posted by Rain Man Ion- I think you are over-analyzing yourself a bit too much. That could be part of your problem. ... Good luck, and no more complaining. ... -RM Rain Man, some of your whole post applies to what I do, some doesn't.