Now that I've gone through the hassle of signing up as a member of this dicussion group, this gets more and more fun. Maybe I'll get fired from my job :)
Anyway... I'm sure that ALL Masters level swimmers have heard of Total Immersion (from now on referred to as TI) swimming, correct? What are everyone's opinions about TI swimming? I am most curious because as a coach of age group swimmers, I was looking for training videos for our kids. I happened upon TI and liked what I saw... at first.
Here's some background for my experience with TI... very well put together, most of what they teach has been in existence for some time anyway, and they certainly are good for teaching novice/beginner swimmers the basic technique for swimming.
However, when looking to swim fast, and I mean fast, not lap swim quality, but truly competitively, I thing TI has missed to boat completely. Yes, smooth and efficient swimming is nice, but did anyone see the NCAA's? There are 20 year old men swimming 9 strokes per length in breaststroke! We have a number of age group coaches in my area teaching their kids how to swim breaststroke at 6 or 7 strokes a length!!! What gives? Extended glide is one thing, but when you slow down your stroke to such an extent just to achieve long and fluid strokes you sacrifice speed tremendously.
Hey, if you can swim 9 strokes a length at 1 second per stroke that is WAY better than 6 strokes a length at 2 seconds per stroke. Simple math.
Anthony Ervin of Cal swam the 100 free in the follwing SPL... 12 (start)/15/16/16. I could be off but that's what I was able to get from the (ahem- PALTRY) ESPN coverage. Now TI has goal SPL's of 12/13! Hello, if the BEST sprinter in history takes 8 cycles, shouldn't that tell us something? Turnover is very important. Same with streamlining, yes streamlines are nice and quite important but A.E. pops up after 5 yards MAX out of each turn. You only serve yourself well if your streamline is faster than you can swim, most age group swimmers would be well-served to explode out of the turn and swim within 3-4 yards.
Alas, it's been a slow day finishing my work for the week. Just looking to start a nice discussion. It's been my experience that a lot of Masters level swimmers are also engaged in coaching age group swimming at some level, and therefore I feel we can get some good dialogue going on this issue.
Now I've just used TI as an example because that's what I've had my experience with, but more general is what keys do you all stress when trying to mold competitive swimmers?
Au revoir,
-Rain Man
Parents
Former Member
of whether to train for endurance or technique will go on forever, I think, but is really quite silly.
Until skills are adequate a swimmer should concentrate on technique - the 'Piano Man' was not learning how to be a faster or better swimmer by training hard. In fact, probably a worse swimmer, just as it is a waste of time for me to do breastroke at intense levels - my stroke is such that I would only make my bad habits even more habitual.
TI and Emmett are doing a great service to the swimming community by making this clear. While it should be obvious, there are still many, if not most, swimmers and coaches that emphasize the intervals over the stroke work when strokes need improvement. It is also the way I swam most of my swimming career.
As skills improve the swimmer should start to incorporate more training for endurance and strength - the best swimmers are in good shape. If you want to be at that level, you need to train. But to think that because Popov swam 80 to 90 km a week (!) he did not pay *constant* attention to his stroke would be a mistake. As Emmett pointed out, strokes degrade, and Popov with a poor stroke would not be a great swimmer.
I agree with Rain Man that TI does seem to teach a style that may not be perfect for everyone. I am thinking in particular of the very divergent styles of some of the best women swimmers, such as Janet Evans or Brooke Bennett, and some of the best male swimmers that have 'hitches' or 'lopes' in their stroke. One should be careful of saying that 'they could be so much better if they only . . .' Who are we kidding? They are already the best in the world.
There are many ways to get to the same place. Kicking with a board has been a training aid for most world class swimmers, and their strokes are fine. I'm sure we have or will have champions that have only done vertical kicking, and their strokes are fine too.
You can just call me "Obvious Man."
Finally, you are a faster swimmer if you apply more power more efficiently. The problem with faster turnover is that the efficiency may get degraded if stroke work is not done at *all* levels of intensity. If you are not thinking about your stroke, every stroke, every set, you are not using your time the best way you can.
of whether to train for endurance or technique will go on forever, I think, but is really quite silly.
Until skills are adequate a swimmer should concentrate on technique - the 'Piano Man' was not learning how to be a faster or better swimmer by training hard. In fact, probably a worse swimmer, just as it is a waste of time for me to do breastroke at intense levels - my stroke is such that I would only make my bad habits even more habitual.
TI and Emmett are doing a great service to the swimming community by making this clear. While it should be obvious, there are still many, if not most, swimmers and coaches that emphasize the intervals over the stroke work when strokes need improvement. It is also the way I swam most of my swimming career.
As skills improve the swimmer should start to incorporate more training for endurance and strength - the best swimmers are in good shape. If you want to be at that level, you need to train. But to think that because Popov swam 80 to 90 km a week (!) he did not pay *constant* attention to his stroke would be a mistake. As Emmett pointed out, strokes degrade, and Popov with a poor stroke would not be a great swimmer.
I agree with Rain Man that TI does seem to teach a style that may not be perfect for everyone. I am thinking in particular of the very divergent styles of some of the best women swimmers, such as Janet Evans or Brooke Bennett, and some of the best male swimmers that have 'hitches' or 'lopes' in their stroke. One should be careful of saying that 'they could be so much better if they only . . .' Who are we kidding? They are already the best in the world.
There are many ways to get to the same place. Kicking with a board has been a training aid for most world class swimmers, and their strokes are fine. I'm sure we have or will have champions that have only done vertical kicking, and their strokes are fine too.
You can just call me "Obvious Man."
Finally, you are a faster swimmer if you apply more power more efficiently. The problem with faster turnover is that the efficiency may get degraded if stroke work is not done at *all* levels of intensity. If you are not thinking about your stroke, every stroke, every set, you are not using your time the best way you can.
