200 fly vs 400 IM

200 fly!!! especially LCM. I did both the 200 fly and 400 IM at Indy LCM Nationals last year. The fly was the iffiest, diciest race of my life. EVERY stroke was a decision and a question. "Can I? Do I wanna? Why do I wanna? What's my name? Why am I here?" Looong waits on the wall. Serious doubts if I could finish. Time stood still. Sloww motion people on the sides claaping, cheeering. It wasn't JUST that my arms got tired, or I had no forward motion, or that I needed air. Every single little piece of my body and soul hurt. I finished--legally. It wasn't pretty. Very happy though. I vote 200 fly LCM.

I can't choose between the two since they are my best events. I rather do a LCM 200 fly anyday over the yards version. All those turns are just too draining and slow me down.

8 laps of fly... or 4 laps of fly with 12 laps of recovery. I'd take the 400 Im.

I love the new smiley! I haven't swum 400 IM long course, but mostly I agree with Patrick's order. Partly it depends on how you swim it. Both hurt pretty badly if you take them out too hard. It is a easier to swim freestyle when you are hurting badly, but the pain also lasts longer. If paced properly, I think the 200 fly short-course hurts just a teeny bit more than 400 IM short-course, but it is a close call. I also think both races are fairly difficult to pace properly, at least for me: I am constantly underestimating how hard I am going in the first half of the race. I agree that 200 fly long course vs short course are different beasts, and I think the 200 fly LCM is the hardest of the bunch by far. ESPECIALLY if you take it out too hard; such occasions have provided the only moments in a pool race where I would begin to doubt my ability to finish. What is interesting is that the 200 fly long course and the 400 IM (any course) are probably the most interesting events from a spectator standpoint, at least for me. I watched all the heats of 200 fly at Indy nationals and it was fascinating. Most other races, you can pretty accurately predict the order of finish by the halfway point, but not in these. The 400 IM is the same way.

No question that the 200 fly, esp. LCM, is the scariest of the two because if you take it out too hard you literally cannot do the stroke. I spent over 50 seconds (and several lifetimes) swimming the last 50 meters of fly in Cleveland at a nationals a few years ago (I heard a guy yell "world record" at the turn and by the end of that length I felt like world "disaster"). It took me 3 years to dare to try it again. . I saw this race. It was a large part of the inspiration for my proposed slogan for USMS--i.e., USMS: Where Old Men Go to Die. Someone once told me the difference in stroke count between the 200 SCY fly and the 200 LCM fly. Even though the latter is only 10 percent further in distance, the absence of the walls means you will end up taking somewhere on the order of two times as many strokes to finish. In a sense, it's more like a 400 SCY fly! Greg, very glad to see you have Lazarused your way back to spectacular life after that (I hate to say it, but...) highly entertaining to watch death-by-200-fly in Cleveland. BTW, that was actually 8 years ago, if you can believe it.

No question that the 200 fly, esp. LCM, is the scariest of the two because if you take it out too hard you literally cannot do the stroke. I'm with Greg. The 400 IM can hurt like hell, but at least you know you can finish--it might be slow--but you can finish. In the 200 fly, if you aren't trained well or you take it out too hard it's definitely possible that you won't be able to finish legally.

Fly can take it out of you in a hurry and leave you doing butter ugly to save your life!

I spent over 50 seconds (and several lifetimes) swimming the last 50 meters of fly in Cleveland at a nationals a few years ago (I heard a guy yell "world record" at the turn and by the end of that length I felt like world "disaster"). I saw this race. It was a large part of the inspiration for my proposed slogan for USMS--i.e., USMS: Where Old Men Go to Die. I think it is pretty clear that *Jim* was the person who yelled "world record," just to see what would happen. Obviously every stroke suffers when you get tired, but fly is in a league of its own. If you were fresh and someone told you to do a 50 fly in 50 sec, you might even doubt your ability to go so slowly. But at the end of a poorly paced 200 fly, however...! Stroke count is only part of the story. For me, in terms of stroke count, 200 LCM fly is about 250 SCY fly, and maybe 225 SCM fly. But the brief rest on the walls and during the underwater also makes a big difference.

In order of difficulty from most to least: 200 fly LCM -- no sane person should swim this 400 IM LCM -- not bad after you get through the breaststroke 400 IM SCY/SCM -- generally, a pretty fun race and the walls make it almost exponentially easier than #2 200 fly SCY/SCM -- I actually think this is not too bad and I'm not a natural butterflier. 200 *** of any flavor of distance is harder than this; provided you loaf the walls, glide far and aim to even/negative split. This order is correct...even if it casts aspersions on my sanity. I will never ever attempt a 200 ***. Ever.

So most of you think the 400IM is the easier event......interesting...... I have some time to consider my options though - first stop is to get my 100 fly back on track.