It is with some trepidation that I start this thread as I expect that many if not most Forumites will approach this issue with initial antagonism to my position in favor of butterfrog as explicated in the "both sides of the lane line" article in the current issue of SWIMMER but I ask Y'all to approach it with an open mind.(I expect antagonism as even my friends refer to my beloved and beautiful breaststroke as"evilstroke so I shudder at the initial reaction to butterfrog.)But look at the argument:George argues against it on historical and aesthetic grounds where as my argument is more practical.As to the aesthetic argument,what is uglier,both to the spectator and the participant than going vertical on butterfly.
George you are a great swimmer and an inspiration,but when is the last time you swam a 200 fly at a meet?
Former Member
What was the original justification for Masters not using the same butterfly rules as everyone else? A fair assumption would be that some masters actually learned to swim butterfly this way at the first place. That is no longer the case for elites, even seniors.
It became irrelevant to even bother about writing rules about something no one would ever use anyway.
I don't have the magazine so I can't comment on the arguments. But if you are arguing in favor of keeping it legal for masters, I don't have a problem with that. As long as "true" butterfly is still legal, of course.
But maybe George will persuade me otherwise.
Banning "evilstroke," on the other hand... :)
I am in favor of banning freestyle too. Just have back and fly.
That's exactly why it shouldn't be legal. If you want to swim a 2 fly, train enough and don't be a wuss. Don't be like "ooo, here is a tiny little loophole that works for me because I happen to be an evilstroker." Geez.
Or legalize dolphin kick in ***. Then sure.
Ah,the elitist anti-wuss argument!Why not make open turns illegal in free and BK and make starts not from the blocks illegal with the same argument.If you can swim a 200 fly with good form great for you,no butterfrogger will beat you.
You must remember that some people don't believe in doing anything but the way they were taught to do so, even if others were taught a different way because of the time when they learned.
It seems like this one goes both ways, though. Some people learned to do butterfly using a frog kick, thus refuse to change to a dolphin kick. Likewise, those who learned using dolphin can't see why the other version should be legal. Which side is being obstinate?
It seems like this one goes both ways, though. Some people learned to do butterfly using a frog kick, thus refuse to change to a dolphin kick. Likewise, those who learned using dolphin can't see why the other version should be legal. Which side is being obstinate?
Compelling and yet, if I can't be obstinate what *can* I ever win in?
Seriously, it's using a loophole meant for old people to avoid doing something the right way. You know in your heart it is wrong; otherwise why the venom?
If it takes someone swimming fly events with a breaststroke kick, gets them to be involved in an event, a meet, part of masters, how is that a bad thing?
I agree. I already said I think butterfrog should continue to be allowed.
Ah,the elitist anti-wuss argument!Why not make open turns illegal in free and BK and make starts not from the blocks illegal with the same argument.If you can swim a 200 fly with good form great for you,no butterfrogger will beat you.
Allen,
You must remember that some people don't believe in doing anything but the way they were taught to do so, even if others were taught a different way because of the time when they learned.
Or it could be one of those people that have a corn cob stuck up the ***.
It seems like this one goes both ways, though. Some people learned to do butterfly using a frog kick, thus refuse to change to a dolphin kick. Likewise, those who learned using dolphin can't see why the other version should be legal. Which side is being obstinate?
Kirk, like you, I learned fly with a dolphin kick. It's the only thing I have ever known. But I also know that not everyone has learned fly that way, since I have tried to study the history of the sport.
I don't think too many people that swim butterfrog haven't tried to learn how to dolphin kick on fly. In fact, I would say many, if not most, have tried to learn it to make them faster.
But it seems to be that a number of people who learned fly with a dolphin kick seem to be smug, if not a$$holes to people that swim fly with a breastroke kick, when instead everyone should be happy to see a person out there doing a 50, 100, 200 fly race instead of not participating in the events.
If it takes someone swimming fly events with a breaststroke kick, gets them to be involved in an event, a meet, part of masters, how is that a bad thing?
