It is with some trepidation that I start this thread as I expect that many if not most Forumites will approach this issue with initial antagonism to my position in favor of butterfrog as explicated in the "both sides of the lane line" article in the current issue of SWIMMER but I ask Y'all to approach it with an open mind.(I expect antagonism as even my friends refer to my beloved and beautiful breaststroke as"evilstroke so I shudder at the initial reaction to butterfrog.)But look at the argument:George argues against it on historical and aesthetic grounds where as my argument is more practical.As to the aesthetic argument,what is uglier,both to the spectator and the participant than going vertical on butterfly.
George you are a great swimmer and an inspiration,but when is the last time you swam a 200 fly at a meet?
What was the original justification for Masters not using the same butterfly rules as everyone else?
when Masters started(1970) whip kick was still legal at all levels.Some Masters swimmers had only learned fly with whip kick and it seemed unfair to require them to learn a new stroke.
when Masters started(1970) whip kick was still legal at all levels.Some Masters swimmers had only learned fly with whip kick and it seemed unfair to require them to learn a new stroke.
"It's not fair" is a horrible rationalization for butterfrog.
I had to learn to do evil with a whip kick, and that didn't seem fair. The current IM order isn't fair. Bulkheads aren't fair. Event order at meets is never fair. It's not fair that the 15 meter rule doesn't apply to evil, but does to backstroke. Given the rampant unfairness in our sport, butterfrog should go!
I have been trying to figure out a way to incorporate a whip kick with dolphin kick. Maybe at turns or if I go vertical. It is a hard transition for me but I would think there is somewhere that a whip/frog kick could fit into the stroke without using it the whole race. Anyone ever experimented?
I don't have the magazine so I can't comment on the arguments. But if you are arguing in favor of keeping it legal for masters, I don't have a problem with that. As long as "true" butterfly is still legal, of course.
But maybe George will persuade me otherwise.
Banning "evilstroke," on the other hand... :)
I have no problem with butterfrog. It's not typically faster than butterfly, so it'd be hard to make an argument that it's cheating. For me, butterfly stops being butterfly when the arms aren't getting out of the water on recovery. Allen, I've seen you swim butterfrog, and your arms recover fully out of the water. No grief here. :)
Side note: Lately I've been noticing lap swimmers that from a distance seem to be swimming breaststroke, but when I see up close what they're doing underwater I think "wait, is that supposed to be butterfly???" I've decided to refer to such swimming as "short axis" since I really can't tell what it is, but it's definitely short axis... :confused:
"It's not fair" is a horrible rationalization for butterfrog.
I had to learn to do evil with a whip kick, and that didn't seem fair. The current IM order isn't fair. Bulkheads aren't fair. Event order at meets is never fair. It's not fair that the 15 meter rule doesn't apply to evil, but does to backstroke. Given the rampant unfairness in our sport, butterfrog should go!
Et tu Fort.
I just want to clarify the fairness rationale is what I understood was the thinking in the early 70s.My argument is practical,it is a good thing to do when you would otherwise be crashing and burning.I like the idea that it may increase participation in fly events,especially the 200 fly.My point is knowing butterfrog lets you swim a 200 fly knowing you can finish it,even if you start it with regular fly.
Every so often I decide to venture a 400im (if I am in any sort of shape); doing the butterfrog forces me to not go out too fast and as it is not that strenuous I usually come back on most people in the race. That can be very satisfying. I have seen Mr Stark crush people who go out fast on 200fly as he waltzes by looking very relaxed.
