Butterfrog

Compelling and yet, if I can't be obstinate what *can* I ever win in? Seriously, it's using a loophole meant for old people to avoid doing something the right way. You know in your heart it is wrong; otherwise why the venom? If it is in the rule book, which it is, how is it a loophole? If the "old people" finish a race and don't get disqualified, then they have done it the right way.

I have not used butterfrog in a meet or practice. However, I would likely NOT have ever attempted either the 400 IM or the 200 fly without the knowledge that I *could* switch to a *** kick if death was imminent. I've told other folks like myself, who don't any or hardly any age group/past swimming background to give those events a try, knowing that you can switch kicks and still finish. So I believe that butterfrog has increased participation in some of the 'scarier' events. :)

Et tu Fort. I just want to clarify the fairness rationale is what I understood was the thinking in the early 70s.My argument is practical,it is a good thing to do when you would otherwise be crashing and burning.I like the idea that it may increase participation in fly events,especially the 200 fly.My point is knowing butterfrog lets you swim a 200 fly knowing you can finish it,even if you start it with regular fly. That's exactly why it shouldn't be legal. If you want to swim a 2 fly, train enough and don't be a wuss. Don't be like "ooo, here is a tiny little loophole that works for me because I happen to be an evilstroker." Geez. Or legalize dolphin kick in ***. Then sure.

I have been trying to figure out a way to incorporate a whip kick with dolphin kick. Maybe at turns or if I go vertical. It is a hard transition for me but I would think there is somewhere that a whip/frog kick could fit into the stroke without using it the whole race. Anyone ever experimented? If you are serious about trying this, then I suggest: 1. Read the rules CAREFULLY; 2. It's one thing to read it; you have to actually practice it to understand it; 3. Have one of the officials, not your buddy or lanemate, watch you to see if it's legal. No point misinterpreting it and then getting DQ'd. The officials that volunteer at the NT swim meets are very nice and I asked one to actually watch me during warm up and explain changing kick within a length and on/off the turns. It is a bit tricky. 4. Develop your whip kick style. I used this at a time when I was in poor condition, but wanted to see if I could just finish it. I found it works best to have a really narrow kick and don't bend your knees to bring the feet up as far as in your regular breastroke. You also have to adjust your timeing to fly arms vs. your *** arm cycle. I wasn't going for speed, just for vertical-ness and to finish legally, so the emphasis was on getting as little drag but as much lift as possible. Think "6 inch baby kicks" and in the recovery portion "lift" your legs "up and out" of the way to avoid up/down drag and side/side drag. If I remember correctly, the key words are something like "mirror image" leg movement, or at least that's what I think about rather than an actual *** kick. I have swum this event both ways. Butterfrog at 2:31 was no less satisfying (squeeked in for a top ten time!) than going 2:15's in my early masters, or 2:06 in college. Times are absolute and unambiguous; interpretation is up to you. South Central Zones, SCY 2008. Last 100 butterfrog. North Texas officials? They are the nicest people and really dedicated. They would be HAPPY if swimmers asked them questions - particulary before their swims!! Uh, not right before, ask them during warm ups or in a quiet moment before the meets starts. I asked Paula Kelley. She swims on DAMM but officiates plenty of our meets as well as swimming the meets herself. She's very friendly and would be happy to explain the rules. Another is the guy who does everything - I think it's Tom Osterber or something like that. Not to be confused with the forumite with a similar name. I think he would actually love to have people ask him about the finer points of legal swimming. And last, regarding the debate - I have no position. Whatever the volunteers on the rules committee decide is ok with me! And thanks for doing the heavy lifting for the rest of us!

If you are serious about trying this, then I suggest: 1. Read the rules CAREFULLY; *** 4. Develop your whip kick style. I used this at a time when I was in poor condition, but wanted to see if I could just finish it. I found it works best to have a really narrow kick and don't bend your knees to bring the feet up as far as in your regular breastroke. *** Think "6 inch baby kicks" and in the recovery portion "lift" your legs "up and out" of the way to avoid up/down drag and side/side drag. *** And last, regarding the debate - I have no position. Whatever the volunteers on the rules committee decide is ok with me! And thanks for doing the heavy lifting for the rest of us! Thanks Michelle. I have worked some on the thinner, more streamlined whip kick and it works better than my regular breaststroke kick. What I have been trying to do is to figure out how I could use a whip kick in conjunction with dolphin kick in a race. One thing I have tried is putting in one thin whip kick at the time of my initial arm pull from the start and after each turn. My thought was it might help overcome inertia and maybe decrease fatigue because it used different muscle groups. What I found was that the drag outweighed the benefit. Decreasing the size of the kick helps some, but it still does not feel like there is a benefit. I have also experimented with a whip kick into the wall. I have the same general feeling about it; however I have not tried it that much and I have seen a glimmer of hope for a whip kick when I have not timed my stroke to reach a wall on a full stroke. I don't think I am ready to try it out in a meet yet, but your idea of talking to the meet official before the race is a good one. I have the same opinion regarding the rule, whatever the committee decides is okay with me.