Foreward: My 50 was a good time for me, my 200 time I have actually beat in practice from a push. Criticism on my 50, starts and turns would probably be most beneficial to me, but I am interested to get feedback on some race pace video. These videos are from the DAM SCM meet yesterday.
My times are annotated in the video, but here they are for reference.
50: 27.71
200: 33.48/36.18/36.78/33.77 1:09.66/1:10.55 2:20.21
YouTube- Mike 50 free DAM SCM 2009
YouTube- Mike 200 free DAM SCM 2009
Former Member
Mike (is that it?)
There's a lot of good stuff in your stroke mechanics. I particularly appreciate the relaxation you manage to put to it (50m). You definitely kick your best, it helps the velocity more than it harms, and yet, the upper body motion is rather smooth.
I'd keep the same stroke rate for the 100m if I was you. You seem to have finished relatively strong, despite....
Your breakouts are kind of strange. And. Em I dreaming or did I see you take a breath on first break out after dive, and on the wrong side (not looking at the competition)? I don't know I may very well be wrong. It's just that the little swimmer next to you came out in front of you by at least a full foot. Maybe your head is just little too high, not well hidden between your shoulders.
Your first 25 was done on 14stroke - 18 on way back. About the turn, well you have a piece of information that I don't have. Where you close enough to the wall to be able to perform a huge full squat? If no then look at your last stroke. It was real short. It could have been little longer and more powerful which would have taken you even closer to the wall. Turn mechanics is perfect. Body position although little too shallow was very streamlined. But the breakout wasn't.
With better push offs breakouts and managing to come back on 16-17 stroke, you'd probably get this 50 very close if not under 27.
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I loved your 200. It seems to have felt amazing. Your hand entry catch etc are fine. Very slight dead spot but hey. 15 strokes all the way until 175m. Then the last 25 you seemed to have fired up the kick. I hope you increased the rate as well because you lost 2 strokes (17).
That being said,your 200 looks like the first 200 of a 400 though. You showed a lot of talent and control in it, but the splits, the feeling etc suggested that you could have swam at least 5sec faster.
There's one thing that bugs me though in your stroke. I had hard time putting the finger on it. First that is because you tend to be late on breathing. Your arm (recovering) goes over your mouth and it makes the analysis of any underlying bigger flaw more difficult. Anyway. The result is that your body alignment is perfectible. You are smart enough to discipline your kick. So hey. The misalignment is contained due to this compact kick.
But again mate. At 15stroke per 25, your technique can bring you very far in the ranking already. So I would probably suggest focusing on this breathing aspect and not worry too much about technique. Increase the stroke rate while not loosing your distance per stroke.
You appear to be a swimmer that trains on 13-14 stroke per length, manages to book relatively fast sets at slow stroke rate. Then on the rare occasions where you increase the rate your breathing gets in the way and I donno. You probably loose some efficiency. You should try varying your *DPS/SR* ratios little more. You got it now. You have this great distance per stroke. Just like cyclists vary their gear ratio combinations to master the full spectrum you should sometimes swim some longish sets on a 16 stroke regiment (High rate) to improve this aspect.
When you decide to sprint (for the 50)...you'll go much faster. :)
May a little more tempo? It looks very strong, but the cadence appears to be a bit more like a distance racers tempo.
Seriously... You have great technique. It's very relaxed and clean. Really nice turns and streamline.
Drink some coffee at the next meet and let the Pr's begin!
Re: your 50,I have to disagree about your distance off the start and turns.You are up before the guy next to you on the start and it didn't look like you got past the flags on the turn.I think you would do better going deeper and kicking harder(SDK maybe?)Your breakout wasn't smooth especially on the start.Did you take a breath at the first stroke?It was unclear to me,but if you did that's a no no.You breathed way too much.It's a 50 and 3 breaths is plenty and 2 maybe better,especially as your recovery slowed slightly with your breathing.You also seemed to build your pace a little in that your turn over seemed faster the second 25,maybe you could have started with a little faster turn over.
Hey Speedo,
Yeah, damn kick. Destroying the block sounds like a great thing to visualize during starts, I will try that. The video wasn't clear coming off the wall, but from other recent videos, I actually have a TON of back arch. I think I look like a sway back mule coming off walls.
Hey Bob, Haha, you are not funny. You can keep the distance events to yourself :)
Hey Allen,
Thanks for the bluntness.
I took 3 breaths on the 50, 2 down and 1 back. Normally I take 1 down and 1 back scy, and if I had taken that first breath down later, 2 would probably had been fine. Since you commented that I took too many breaths, I have to think my stroke is pretty unbalanced. I will look at it some more, but I think I need to rotate more on my left side to correct that.
I agree with the analysis that I came up too soon, but I think it is a streamline not a depth issue. I had a significant arch to my back which, when I manage to rarely correct, makes over a body lengths difference off the wall with the same effort. It seems trivial, but I am having a ton of trouble over coming it.
My 50 builds intentionally, but you are right that my turn over needs to be faster from the get go.
Hey Steve, I counted 32 :)
Hey Tom, LOL, I don't think even splitting a 200 is ideal, but it would have been great pace for the 400. You too can keep your distance events :)
Hey Paul, Thanks! I just got a tempo trainer not too long ago, and now I have a place to start. If you are .82, I a shooting for .80 :)
I love the 50 advice. Just go faster.
Hey SolarEnergy, Yes, Mike or Michael or Quinn or Q or Qbrain are all fine.
You are dreaming on the breathing. I took 2 breathes down and 1 back, but my head is probably high. I have been working on keeping a lower head position, and it still needs a lot more work.
My turn was a full squat, but my back is severally arched off the walls, and it causes me to pop to the surface. When I manage to flatten my back appropriately, we are talking meters difference, not feet.
Sounds like my break outs really need work, since you are not the first to mention them.
I am glad you liked my 200, I was appalled with the time. I have been under 2:20 from a push twice for max effort swims scm in the last month. I really really need to get the pace of the first 50 down, and after that, I think things will fall into place.
Hey Quick, when I decide to sprint... thanks :) I really wish I could find that turbo button.
Hey Midas, Yeah, I should have gone 31/33/33/33 on the 200. I was just an idiot on the swim, no joke. My 100 was 1:00.52, and the 200 was between the 50 and the 100, so some kind of strategy brain fart. Thanks for reinforcing the main points from the previous posts and the compliment.
Hi Michelle, "You know, the guy who beat your time in 50, but he swam the 50 ***." I beat that guy by .5 seconds and I don't like you anymore! :) Man, he was screaming.
I could have used the tips on the blocks, oh, YESTERDAY. I will try to remember them for next year.
The turn advice is great, as soon as I figure out what my cowboy kick is, I think I can probably turn it into a toothpaste flip and shave a few seconds off my 200, and make a few tenths off my 50. I am totally quizzing you before SMU.
Well I don't have that much to say except purdy stroke.
More turnover on the 50 IMHO (to the point of max speed at a controlled stroke)...that and your swimsuit looks a bit tight...does it chaffe?:bolt:
Did you know the guy next to you was doing a 50 TT? That would have confused me.
Until I read this, I was totally confused by that guy to the side. I thought his was a cautionary tale for NOT jacking up the cadence too much, too soon.
The 50 TT business makes more sense.
Mr. Q, the only think that really stood out for me was something Paul mentioned: lack of body roll. I agree with everyone else--you have a really nice looking, relaxed stroke. But there is just the slightest hint of a barge sometimes, plowing through the water more flatly than seems ideal.
You have pretty broad shoulders, too, which makes the increased drag from plowing even more pronounced. I think if you could try some drills that get you swimming side-to-side on a more tilted axis, so that your recovery arm and shoulder and that side of your chest are out of the water more, you will be trying to power less "submerged hull" through the water, and your propulsive efforts will take you further.
Do you ever do those kick drills where you kick 10-12 beats on your left side, left arm pointed straight forward like a marlin's bill, then pull the left arm through and rotate to your right side, another 10-12 kicks with the new right-handed marlin's bill, and so forth? The long axis should not move, but your body might slide thru the water better if you swivel back and forth along this.
- your sprint tempo needs to be much higher - the 50 turnover looked more suitable for a 200/500
Don't listen to these people. This criticism has been tossed my way for years and years. On the other hand, it could explain my dreadful results in the 50, 100, and 200 but I'm not admitting to anything, especially when it comes from wolfy.
Until I read this, I was totally confused by that guy to the side. I thought his was a cautionary tale for NOT jacking up the cadence too much, too soon.
Don't listen to these people. Not only can I not sprint, I wasn't even there!
I've had problems with the back arch thing sometimes.What helped me was to concentrate on tightening my glutes during the streamline.Stand in front of a mirror and see if it makes a difference.
I played with this this morning. Normally I streamline with my shoulders in my ears, but today I dropped my head and streamlined with my shoulders behind my head. By tucking my head, my back flattened. Not sure if this is a great idea at this point, but it made a couple yards difference off the walls today.
For the last two weeks, I have been trying to roll my hips forward to flatten my back as you describe, but I was so bad at it I just felt like I was wiggling around off every wall and not making any additional distance.
Technically, I think the hip roll solution is more streamlined, but if I am too uncoordinated to master it...
I would agree with Allen:
- your sprint tempo needs to be much higher - the 50 turnover looked more suitable for a 200/500
- you should spend "as little time as possible actually swimming" in SCY/SCM - so longer underwater off the start, and deeper/longer underwater off the turn.
:2cents: