High elbows vs. being "long" in the water

Then you mentioned to stay flatter in the water to achieve a longer boat. Wouldn't swimming flatter make one more like a barge than a longer vessel? It's good to read about warnings and caveats expressed against some technique displayed by world class swimmers. It is often a good opportunity to advocate stretching. But where did I mention that I'd favor swimming flat? On some butterfly thread maybe? :) (just kidding here, no offence). The truth of the matter is that I strongly agree with descriptions made in TI literature on how the body should travel (cut) through the water. I also find that it is worth to spend considerable amount of time (years) in aiming at cutting drag and cut efficiently through the water, becoming more and more like a fish.

This above explaination should show you that every swimmer should use every quadrant and to say some is or is not a "front-quadrant" swimmer, is simply not necessary and/or silly! I am having hard time with this explanation. I am not even sure where I am getting lost. But I am eager to understand your point, if you're patient ;-) One thing is sure though, if you want to get me to understand anything, forget about your first clip. Just the look of it (outch) that hurts. If everything evolves around the first clip, we may be on a dead lock.

Solar the old phrase swim like a fish is a very false statemnt. Fish do a fishtail movement. This action is not streamlined. It only would work if we had a fishes tail fins.

If it hurts, don't do it - PERIOD! The entry and "setting-up" of the stroke is very important but when a certain entry and positioning of the forearm and hand hurts (at any angle, straight, bent or inbetween) don't try to conform to something your musculature is not prepared to handle. Like George said, an video of you swimming is important before more suggestions are to be given. Good luck, Coach T.

SE, I can see what you're talking about with Thorpe - his fingers point forward and a little down even at entry. You know without actually seeing you, it's becoming difficult to issue detailed recommendation. Yeah, understood. I'll try to take a video of me attempting EVF. What angles should I get video from - underwater side and front views?

My apologies Solar. I wasn't paying attention. no probs. Speaking about flat body and TI. I don't know if yourself are representing some branch of TI, but here... Strangely enough, this clip here (referred to by CoachT earlier) is explicitly advocating perfectly flat body position for favoring high elbow, and it comes from TI Israel ... (reach out for minute 1:50) YouTube - How to swim with a High Elbow Catch/EVF - Total Immersion Israel Has TI (head office) lost control over its branches? - - - Yeah, understood. I'll try to take a video of me attempting EVF. What angles should I get video from - underwater side and front views? Serpio, I think that we all forgot to ask you few important questions: - Which one of your shoulders is getting painful? - Do you breathe only on one side, if yes which one? You seem to have read somewhere that the famous dropped elbow pulling (which typically occurs to those wanting to glide too much upon arm entry) can be the cause of shoulder pain. And I agree (to a large extent) with this statement. However, like many members participating to your thread have pointed out, EVF may be little too extreme as a solution to solve the dropped elbow flaw. So if you're asking me what I would like to see, I'd like to see you swimming as naturally as possible. Say I show up during one of your swim session, say I have a camera but you didn't see me. I'd film you without you even noticing? It is this stroke I'd like to see.

no probs. Speaking about flat body and TI. I don't know if yourself are representing some branch of TI, but here... . Nope, I am only representing myself in asking the question. I am only concerned with how to improve my freestyle, considering over the last few years that it has gone south faster than I did getting out of new jersey.

Nope, I am only representing myself in asking the question. I am only concerned with how to improve my freestyle, considering over the last few years that it has gone south faster than I did getting out of new jersey. This confusion about flat body position is a shame. Front crawl is swam from side to side. Of course, moving from one side to the other involves that at some point, the body is flat. If you pause any freestyle clip in the middle of this side-to-side action, then the body is flat. This fact seems to have inspired mysterious schools of thoughts to recommend swimming flat in order to favor high elbow?????? :applaud:

This confusion about flat body position is a shame. Front crawl is swam from side to side. Of course, moving from one side to the other involves that at some point, the body is flat. If you pause any freestyle clip in the middle of this side-to-side action, then the body is flat. This fact seems to have inspired mysterious schools of thoughts to recommend swimming flat in order to favor high elbow?????? :applaud: The best way I have found for now to be able to move from side to side is to let my recovering arm roll me from side to side. I tried the concept of "rotate from the hips" to control the stroke, that never seemed to produce any good results. For me, letting the recovering arms dictate the timing has produced a better connection of the stroke.

I gave this flat position thing a second then a third thought. I think I understand better what they mean and they may have a point. During this transition from side to side, the time when the body is almost flat may as well be the best time to actually drop the forearm thus bending the elbow.