For all of you who know Leslie the Fortress Livingston, this should help you know her better.
For all of you who don't know Leslie the Fortress Livingston, prepare for the thrill ride get-to-know-Leslie event of the year.
A little background: Leslie is the 4th woman in history in the 45-49 year age group to beat 30 seconds in the 50 SCM butterfly.
She did this at age 47, and it is possible that she is actually the FIRST woman in history this old to break 30 at the age (assuming the previous 3 were 45 or 46.)
www.youtube.com/watch
This small film will help you understand all that goes into becoming an extraordinary human being/swimmer. Oh, and there's a little about Leslie in this, too.
Just joking. It's all about Leslie. With some guest appearances by Paul Wolf, Julie "Mulie" Oplinger, Jeff "the Barbarian" Roddin, and Jim Thornton as "the narrator."
Please enjoy before Leslie forces Jim Matysek to take this down.
A bit off topic...but thought I'd pass along another age group meet loving masters swimmer (Dennis Baker) just went 4:37.6 in the 500 free and 1:50.7 at a kids meet in Oregon...not sure if it was sanctioned for USMS or that he cares all that much.
*ahem* What's this?
"Karlyn would not be denied, however; she time-trialed the event, finishing in 4:34.65, well under her USMS record of 4:38.27 from 2007."
double standard?
Wasn't it in yards at a USS meet? I'm sure, unlike me, she knows her stuff.
But, as to the double standard issue, I have heard gossip, and it's just gossip, that this kind of stuff is permitted all the time depending on who you know. Not surprising really, that just mimics life.
Awesome swim by Dennis Baker! He probably doesn't care, as he's in his own league and swims a lot of USS meets. However, most masters swimmers seem fairly psycho about their times.
No time trials in SCM and LCM, Frank?! You're the first person I've heard mention this angle. But I guess you could say that a time trial is a timed final event.
A bit off topic...but thought I'd pass along another age group meet loving masters swimmer (Dennis Baker) just went 4:37.6 in the 500 free and 1:50.7 at a kids meet in Oregon...not sure if it was sanctioned for USMS or that he cares all that much.
Holy crap. I guess I have to adjust my goals for the SCY season. I was aiming to get under 4:40, thinking that would be darn respectable, but now I have to ratchet that down even further. WOW!
quicksilver:
Are you talking about a split from a longer race or a time trial? Remember what Ourswimmer and Chris Stevenson said about how results are submitted as trials to reflect a swim breaking a record from a split and not from the actual event.
The time trials I am talking about are for swimmers at the end of the meet swimming events in a time trial format. I do not believe that was done at either Long Beach or the New England Championships and if it was done than none of the times should count because it was not in the original sanction grant from the LMSC. When the meet flyer gets posted with the Sanction Number and the schedule of events are swam according to the schedule for the two day meet, those times would be the only ones acceptable as part of the Sanction competition.
If there was a time trials section that was sanctioned in the original sanction packet that the meet host signs with the LMSC then that is permissible but only for short course yards meets and that is probably because of the FINA rule where they forbid time trials in master meets under there jurisdiction. For short course yards, they don't care about it and the NGB, which in this case is USMS can accept time trial swims just like USA Swimming does, ONLY if certain stipulations are meet in the USMS Rules, namely it must be part of the original sanction.
quicksilver:
Are you talking about a split from a longer race or a time trial? Remember what Ourswimmer and Chris Stevenson said about how results are submitted as trials to reflect a swim breaking a record from a split and not from the actual event.
The time trials I am talking about are for swimmers at the end of the meet swimming events in a time trial format. I do not believe that was done at either Long Beach or the New England Championships and if it was done than none of the times should count because it was not in the original sanction grant from the LMSC. When the meet flyer gets posted with the Sanction Number and the schedule of events are swam according to a the schedule for the two meet, those times would be the only ones acceptable as part of the Sanction competition.
If there was a time trials section that was sanctioned in the original sanction packet that the meet host signs with the LMSC then that is permissible but only for short course yards meets and that is probably because of the FINA rule where they forbid time trials in master meets under there jurisdiction. For short course yards, they don't care about it and the NGB, which in this case is USMS can accept time trial swims just like USA Swimming does, ONLY if certain stipulations are meet in the USMS Rules, namely it must be part of the original sanction.
I thought the meet director and referee had authority to add time trials if they made a general announcement to that effect and made them available to all? Even if it wasn't on the original order of events/sanction? This has been done before.
Why can't a time trial be construed as a timed final event, Frank?
Fortress:
We had a discussion about this about 7 years ago. When USMS went to new software in January 2002, you could not get to the old forums where this was a hot topic.
If I remember correctly, swimmers were asking the meet referee, officials, and the meet director if they could swim a time trial for a selected event after the meet. Some of these swimmers went faster than they did in the individual events in the meet and there were complaints about this from swimmers in the meet because they had actually swam the events and were not given special treatment of "time trial" swims for records and top ten purposes.
From my recollections these swims were not permitted for top ten or record purposes because they were not in the original official sanction and that any agreement to add to this sanction after the meet started was "after the fact" and should not be part of the meet.
It was also pointed out that any Referee or Official at the meet making any kind of decision about adding events to a sanction did not have authority to do this and this is an administrative function or "dry" side of the meet and that they are only there to enforce the "wet" side of the meet, meaning any technical rules of swimming. The LMSC issues the Official Sanction thru the LMSC Sanction Chair to the Meet Host and Meet Director usually signs for the Meet Host the Sanction agreement and once its signed cannot be changed, altered, or transferred.
The Meet Director does not have the authority to alter the sanction once the meet starts and is only at liberty to do so if he reapplies for a sanction with the LMSC. This to me makes sense because during the meet you could have all sorts of swimmers wanting to change, add, and delete events. So this puts some kind of control and order for the meet to be conducted in an organized competition.
A time trial to me cannot be construed as a timed final because it was not defined as a timed final event in the original schedule of events in the Official Sanction. A timed final event is the events that are on the schedule of the flyer, swam in the heats, and timed and put in the official results as timed final swims for that particular numbered event.
I'll say it again...I would really hope that at some point USMS & USA Swimming can work towards finding more common ground. I'd love to see more meets that are coordinated and promoted (in both directions) from the two organizations. Just as we have USMS swimmers who don't always have free time when meets are run I have to believe there are USA teams that would like an occasional oppurtunity to have their "senior" (18+) athletes get an addtional meet in...but we have to streamline the rules and find a way to better integrate the data...
We talk often about growth on this forum and to take a quote from the buisness world "the best customer's are the ones you already have". In other words we already have a system in place that age group/high school/college swimmers "understand" and could fit easilly into...if we can do a better job of letting them know who we are.
Fortress:
We had a discussion about this about 7 years ago. When USMS went to new software in January 2002, you could not get to the old forums where this was a hot topic.
If I remember correctly, swimmers were asking the meet referee, officials, and the meet director if they could swim a time trial for a selected event after the meet. Some of these swimmers went faster than they did in the individual events in the meet and there were complaints about this from swimmers in the meet because they had actually swam the events and were not given special treatment of "time trial" swims for records and top ten purposes.
From my recollections these swims were not permitted for top ten or record purposes because they were not in the original official sanction and that any agreement to add to this sanction after the meet started was "after the fact" and should not be part of the meet.
It was also pointed out that any Referee or Official at the meet making any kind of decision about adding events to a sanction did not have authority to do this and this is an administrative function or "dry" side of the meet and that they are only there to enforce the "wet" side of the meet, meaning any technical rules of swimming. The LMSC issues the Official Sanction thru the LMSC Sanction Chair to the Meet Host and Meet Director usually signs for the Meet Host the Sanction agreement and once its signed cannot be changed, altered, or transferred.
The Meet Director does not have the authority to alter the sanction once the meet starts and is only at liberty to do so if he reapplies for a sanction with the LMSC. This to me makes sense because during the meet you could have all sorts of swimmers wanting to change, add, and delete events. So this puts some kind of control and order for the meet to be conducted in an organized competition.
A time trial to me cannot be construed as a timed final because it was not defined as a timed final event in the original schedule of events in the Official Sanction. A timed final event is the events that are on the schedule of the flyer, swam in the heats, and timed and put in the official results as timed final swims for that particular numbered event.
Thanks Frank. Wow, that's interesting. Seems like I've heard quite a lot, including from Jeff, that if the meet director/referee announces the time trial at the beginning of the day and opens it to all, the time counts. This "announcment" point was also one of the reasons my time was initially disallowed.
Perhaps more meet directors should consider putting a time trial slot on the order of events for their meet, if they think it won't run too long. (Rutgers was done around 1:00 or so.) USS swimming seems far ahead of us in some respects. This would certainly help people who have order of event issues.
Paul, there were quite a few masters swimmers in the dual sanctioned yards meet I swam in in NC. First time I had ever seen that, really.
