For all of you who know Leslie the Fortress Livingston, this should help you know her better.
For all of you who don't know Leslie the Fortress Livingston, prepare for the thrill ride get-to-know-Leslie event of the year.
A little background: Leslie is the 4th woman in history in the 45-49 year age group to beat 30 seconds in the 50 SCM butterfly.
She did this at age 47, and it is possible that she is actually the FIRST woman in history this old to break 30 at the age (assuming the previous 3 were 45 or 46.)
www.youtube.com/watch
This small film will help you understand all that goes into becoming an extraordinary human being/swimmer. Oh, and there's a little about Leslie in this, too.
Just joking. It's all about Leslie. With some guest appearances by Paul Wolf, Julie "Mulie" Oplinger, Jeff "the Barbarian" Roddin, and Jim Thornton as "the narrator."
Please enjoy before Leslie forces Jim Matysek to take this down.
Wan't the IGLA a USMS samctioned or recognized meet?
it was a sanctioned meet.
If so, your top ten recorder should submit the times to USMS for top ten consideration.
the times will be submitted to USMS (as the meet was a USMS sanctioned meet). i actually think they have already been submitted...
I understand that FINA may not have given the meet a sanction (although I've no idea why), but if USMS did, why are those results not being counted?
FINA does not grant sanctions, they delegate that to the NGBs in each country. again, USMS did sanction the meet.
no one i've talked to seems to know exactly why FINA is not accepting the times, and as far as i know, USMS is still working to get the times accepted...
EDIT: it turns out FINA finally did the right thing and decided to accept the times from the IGLA meet!
So after reading Leslie's account and experiencing my own issues and other swimmer friends' issues with swims not counting, my biggest concern (and the recurring theme) :dedhorse::dedhorse::dedhorse: as a masters swimmer is swimmers' times being thrown out b/c officials, referees, and meet directors don't know the rules.
Do people want to spend upwards of $1K to $2K+ to do a travel meet where USMS swims may or may not count? And whether or not the swims count will be determined in the future by the USMS Top 10 committee in which I as a swimmer will not be notified if the times do not count.
How big a problem is this? When the 2006 Auburn meet results were thrown out in 2006, it appears that about 1,000 swims were discounted due to the pool not being measured. 1,000 swims seems like quite a few swims in just one meet . . .
Oh for crying out loud it's Masters Swimming not the Olympics. Leslie stands to gain a big fat nothing from this aside from personal satisfaction.
It's like me seriously thinking I am the fastest guy in my agegroup for the 200 BR at Zones. Sure I won because nobody else swam, but do I really think that nobody my age there could beat me?
Same for 50 FL top ten... enjoy it, but Leslie is faster than anyone who went over 29.99. We have video proof--and the pool was sanctioned.
It's like me seriously thinking I am the fastest guy in my agegroup for the 200 BR at Zones. Sure I won because nobody else swam, but do I really think that nobody my age there could beat me?
/QUOTE]
LOL I checked the database and I see I placed 3rd and 4th several times for a meet I didn't even show up to! (Was sick)
Wan't the IGLA a USMS samctioned or recognized meet? If so, your top ten recorder should submit the times to USMS for top ten consideration. I understand that FINA may not have given the meet a sanction (although I've no idea why), but if USMS did, why are those results not being counted?
As for the Rutgers situation, I don't know what to say. Is my former coach on the Rules Committee? This sounds like some of his strange backwards logic at work.
All rules should be applied in consideration of fairness for all competitors. In that regard, is your time trial unfair? I would say no, especially if there is no clear cut rule prohibiting time trials. When I trained to become a stroke & turn official, the #1 rule of thumb we learned was that the benefit of the doubt went to the swimmer unless we were 100% certain of the infraction. One might suggest that the Rules Committee use the same principle to govern situations where there is ambiguity in the interpretation of the rules.
I think there is one thing that everyone on these forums can agree unanimously on:
"Little devil" is the perfect nickname for our beloved Jeffrey "little devil" Roddin, completely supplanting his former soubriquet, Jeffrey "hot" Roddin.
All opposed?
All in favor?
The motion to designate Jeff Roddin as a little devil in perpetuity carries.
Several people did do official splits that resulted in national or world records, and I think the results label those as "time trials," but they weren't time trials in the same sense that yours was.
When people do split requests in meets for which I submit the results, the way I get them to "count" in Current Event Rankings is to add them as time-trials to the MM file before submitting it. Probably the same thing was done at the LB meet.
Well, they bring their own headaches. Their pool measurements rules are less strict than ours. The times don't count for FINA either. And getting them submitted for USMS TT is a little more of a hassle.
www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/.../19887.asp
It's not so much to find in the rulebook where it disallows the swim. It's actually the converse: the rulebook defines what is an eligible swim - it does not list all the swims that don't count. Here is one last try at a more direct explanation of my own interpretation of the rulebook: in order for a swim to "count" it must be from a sanctioned/recognized event. Period. The rulebook goes on to explain what constitutes a sanctioned/recognized swim. The time trial was not done in a meet (the zone meet announcement did not include a 50 fly at the end of the meet) and therefore does not meet the definition of an eligible swim.
Jeff:
I found the section in the 2008 USMS Rulebook on page 8 under 102.10.1 in A where it reads:
"All short course meter events, long course meter events and national championships shall be conducted on a timed-final basis. Other short course yards events may be conducted on a timed-final basis or other basis e.g., trials/finals).
To me this means that time trials are not permitted in USMS short course meters and USMS long course meter sanctioned meets. However, in short course yards they can be permitted as long as the events in the time trials are sanctioned by the LMSC for the meet host in the application for Sanction.
This rule comes from the FINA Rule Book in MSW in 3.4 where it reads "All Masters events shall be conducted on a timed final basis." Again this to me means that events are swam in the sanctioned meet as final swims and they are reflected in the results as such. There is no mention of time trials in the FINA Rule book because they don't allow it and every event is a timed final from the meet events approved for sanction in the meet flyer and program.
FINA does allow time trials for Swimming and not for Masters and this is spelled out in the FINA Rule Book in SW 12.4 and it states that a competition of an individual against time, held in public and announced publicly by advertisement at least three days before the attempt is to be made. In an event of an individual race against time being sanctioned by a Member, as a time trial during a competition, then an advertisement at least three (3) days before the attempt is to be made shall not be necessary.
The key is that it MUST be sanctioned by a Member for it to count and if not it must be advertised at least 3 days prior to the trial. So for purposes of FINA, even for Swimming, a time trial granted in this fashion would not count as an official time for records and top ten.
