Swimming Stereotypes

Women do not swim competitively to attract men. Swimming makes you look like a tank, and is counter-productive on that score. Revenge and escapism are probably more accurate. A tank? In what parallel universe does that happen? Most of the serious swimming women I know have bodies, the worship of which could form the basis of a major world religion. H@ll, "The-Woman-In-The-Electric-Blue-Speedo" arrived at the Y this AM just as I was finishing up my easy 1/2 hour and I then swam an extra 1/2 hour just to bask in her presence. Don't buy that "fit=unattractive" crap. As more women participate in sport early in life and then carry it forward, we will see a shift in perception. Keep in mind that has only been 30-ish years or so that women have had a better number of participation options for sport, so it will take another generation or so to change things. Of course, it is ABSOLUTELY TRUE, that if you train too hard, your uterus will fall out, but that's another story entirely. -LBJ

Allen You must not have attended any meets that I have been to. There are many that are great but also there are some not to great. There are also some pretty Tank type guys at the meets also (myself included).

Swimmj--I LOVE your description of that little 7 year old and her friend who together are so cute it makes your teeth hurt! You sound like a great coach and a great competitor. Elise, your descriptions of the South are fascinating. I agree that women are often extremely competitive and frankly, your gender seems to be taking over the world. Perhaps some day, we males will shrivel into drones, and from there into sperm-dribbling homonculi you can carry around in your purses, and from there into even tinier and easier to swallow little pods of protoplasm that could survive in your guts and leeech reproductive material into the womb as needed. Frankly, I'd be happy to become your quasi-hermaphroditic new organ/boyfriend right now. A warm, quiet, moist place where I can rest and not ever again worry about food or napping too long... Alas, until nature takes its predictable course, I am stuck with my present husk. I might tell the researcher who is studying gender and competition about this thread. I think he'd find it pretty fascinating. If anyone wants a .pdf of his papers, let me know and I will email them to you. jamesthornton1@comcast.net

The Next Generation: Bad Girls You may think you're tough. Sure, you clawed your way up the corporate ladder making six figures before age 30; you were promoted to a board of previously all male executive managers as the first female SR VP in a predominantly male industry; you're reputation is to make grown men cry in the board room, the bedroom, and, your favorite location, during practices. You spit nails and curse like a sailor while being a fabulous wife and mother to at least three. Very proud to say I both know of few of these awesome BAD GIRLS and have them in the practices I coach - and swim. Very proud... I unfortunately do not qualify on several counts (3 babies and the swearing) but consider me a huge fan. Looking forward to the numbers growing in masters swimming!

According to stats from USMS, 61 percent of USMS members from 20-29 now are female. In running races, a 10-12 percent time gap between men and women has stabilized in pretty much every distance. At both elite and amateur running competitions, two to four times more men than women turn in relatively fast times as evidenced by how close they come to sex-specific world-class standards. The same fellow who did this statistical analysis and published two papers in the journal Evolutionary Psychology is now collecting data on swimming. Somewhat to his surprise, he has found that this gap in competitiveness does NOT exist in swimming. If anything, the opposite is true--with more women coming closer to sex-specific world class standards than men. It's really fascinating to me to see this rise in the Super Girls of the world. Kristina and Dara and Leslie all seem to embody it. The evolutionary biology theory has long held that men are competitive because victory endears them to the distaff gender. (One researcher told me that during medieval jousting bouts, the fair ladies would actually lift their skirts to show the knights what was at stake.) I am not sure if Super Girl swimmers reap the same psychosexual rewards as the Super Boy swimmers, and I find it impossible to imagine that many (or any) of you would be motivated by even the most attractive male swimmer "lifting his Speedo" as you step up on the blocks as a way of showing you what's at stake. Allegedly, women in the Olympic village were throwing themselves at Michael Phelps. I don't think the reciprocal was true for Natalie C, though she is arguably a much more physically appealing specimen as a female as MP is as a male. It fact, it seems that I read somewhere that guys in the Olympic village were hitting on females based on f their standard attractiveness measures, not their medal status. If anything,women who won Gold were kind of a turnoff. My question to you super girls of swimming--and I am not joking--is what motivates your training and zeal to be the best? I do think that for a lot of guys, there is at least a subtle subtext involved of attracting the chicks. It almost seems that super girls get more satisfaction from crushing guys than attracting them. Is it as simple a matter as this: guys swim for lust; girls swim for revenge? I would honestly love to hear the philosophy of female competitiveness.

I unfortunately do not qualify on several counts (3 babies and the swearing) but consider me a huge fan. I do really well on that score. Upon re-reading though, I think Kristina was saying that cursing career women DON'T compare with the Next Gen chicks. I"m certainly DQ'd because of my penchant for "cheating." Jim, Women do not swim competitively to attract men. Swimming makes you look like a tank, and is counter-productive on that score. Revenge and escapism are probably more accurate.

The Voyeur Watches you very closely throughout the duration of each and every practice. At best you are uncomfortable with this. At worst you are slightly freaked out. You're not sure which is better or worse - that s/he is looking at your technique or er, . . . other things.. Just so you know, if The Voyeur has a Y chromosome and his brain tissues were exposed to a normal level of testosterone during gestation, he is looking at er,.....other things. There is one theoretical exception to this, but I add theoretical because I am not sure how he could possibly arrange it. To wit, if he somehow managed to be swimming next to you during the refractory period, provided he can keep his eyes opened under the circumstances, he might be temporarily interested in your technique. You know the refractory period is at an end, however, when he asks if you mind his swimming right behind you to better study the nuances of your *** stroke kick. I hope this helps. The Lecherous Explainer

Women do not swim competitively to attract men. Swimming makes you look like a tank, and is counter-productive on that score. Speaking only for myself, of course, but athletic women are vastly more appealing than sickly supermodels and their ilk.

Speaking only for myself, of course, but athletic women are vastly more appealing than sickly supermodels and their ilk. Athletic, good. Tank, no good. That said, I still don't think women's motivation to swim is to attract men.

Just so you know, if The Voyeur has a Y chromosome and his brain tissues were exposed to a normal level of testosterone during gestation, he is looking at er,.....other things. The Lecherous Explainer Oh my friend, the voyeur can absolutely have two X chromosomes. You underestimate the female gender. . . . he might be temporarily interested in your technique. The Lecherous Explainer There are good enough swimmers out there in which some are enchanted by technique - both good and bad! You know the refractory period is at an end, however, when he asks if you mind his swimming right behind you to better study the nuances of your *** stroke kick. The Lecherous Explainer Ugh! I've had this happen! 40+ year old ex NCAA Div I swimmer INSISTS pm going right behind me (say 1 second back) during LCM IM set at 5:45 AM. :bitching: Just call me the unsuspecting, chaste, unsullied, naive, cream-puff-pushover. After that set. . . never again!