Do we have it (training) all wrong?

By the same token I think there's an assumption that to bang out max yardage means you're swimming everything at aerobic pace. Swim Atlanta "busts it out" so to speak for the last 30 minutes of every practice regardless of whether you are in the mid distance, distance, fly (stroke), or IM lane.

I only sort of agree with this. It's awesome to have a good eye watching you swim and giving you the right focus points and drills. I assume it is, anyway, because I've never really been coached that way. I've always been coached as part of a team, so corrections were rare and they usually seemed like guesses. "I think you might be spinning, maybe slow the stroke rate?" Swimming by yourself can work if you go more by how things feel than by how they look. If you know what a good swim feels like, you can alter your workout to try to capture that feeling. For me, it's like "That wasn't quite it, it needs more X. Drill/set/equipment Y gives me X sometimes. I'll try Y." Some things you know you're doing wrong and can attempt to self-correct and possibly succeed. Other fine points, you need a coach or educated observer, I agree. I've had several people point out things I'm doing wrong in fly that I never really realized, for example. Kirk and Paul: Good point on quality applying to distance. I've got some distance geeks on my team that definitely are in zones 4-5 on some sets or parts of sets. They're animals. I dunno about the snorkel, Paul. I know you and others love it. I've tried it a few times, can't get the hang of it and feel like I'm suffocating. Maybe this fall when I don't have many meets.

Swim Atlanta "busts it out" so to speak for the last 30 minutes of every practice regardless of whether you are in the mid distance, distance, fly (stroke), or IM lane. I thought it was inadvisable to do high intensity work every practice?

We have a serious problem with obesity in our country today, and I give credit to anyone who does something to try to combat it. Sure, walking on a treadmill while reading/watching tv for 30 min isn't the quickest way to shed some pounds, but it is better than sitting on the couch. I'd hate to discourage someone like that, for fear they may stop entirely. I guess I'd consider myself a fitness swimmer, since I don't compete. I pretty much just go with the flow at workouts, whatever the coach says so I don't have to move to another lane. I'll do speed sets when they're assigned, but I really don't see why I need it. I enjoy swimming, and do other things to help my overall fitness (like lifting weights, core work, and running). When I'm in the pool, I usually like cranking out as many yards/meters as I can, in the limited time I have. Mr. Nelson...my point is that to many people are training with the "all or nothing" mindset...I'm suggesting people think outside the box and change things up on a frequent basis....especially those who don't understand the training zones and the fact that quality work is important. Timm...if its obestity your concerned about those people would be better served doing 30 minutes of resistance training vs. 30-60 minutes of low level obesity which would have more impact on weight loss. And the reality is even before doing ANY workouts diet needs to be addressed. Also, with regard to your question of "needing" quality/speed work in the pool...if you want to maintain the same swimming speed in practice and not make jumps in your ability to swim faster times on faster intervals...but rather to stagnate or regress than the "bang out as many yards as possible" strategy if fine. All the other things you do (weights/running) are fine for general fitness but if you want to specifically get faster in running/swimming you have to train faster in those sports just as if you want to get stringer in the weight room you'll need to lift harder and change your routine on a regular basis.

I propose that it is impossible to perform a quality workout without having an experienced coach (college or Trials/ Olympic background) correct you throughout the entire workout. I only sort of agree with this. It's awesome to have a good eye watching you swim and giving you the right focus points and drills. I assume it is, anyway, because I've never really been coached that way. I've always been coached as part of a team, so corrections were rare and they usually seemed like guesses. "I think you might be spinning, maybe slow the stroke rate?" Swimming by yourself can work if you go more by how things feel than by how they look. If you know what a good swim feels like, you can alter your workout to try to capture that feeling. For me, it's like "That wasn't quite it, it needs more X. Drill/set/equipment Y gives me X sometimes. I'll try Y."

Folks, I discussed this in the getting stronger thread. It's all about gradually increase eustress (GOOD stressors) on the body, be that with running a little faster and/or longer each day, lifting a little more weight, swimming tighter and/or faster intervals, we need to continually increase the load. If the goal is to just to be able to do X, then great, eventually your body will become superb at doing X with the least possible work. But if after doing X for months (years), you then want to do X+Y, your body will fight you. So why not keep increasing the load and progressing?

There are good coaches, great coaches, some that are fellow swimmers that are willing to take the responsibility of posting the workout, and then there are those on crack. I would rather limp along self directed that every have another coach that is unwilling to post the work out, or does not work with those that are focusing on specific events and strokes. I will spend enough time in purgatory swimming backstroke and will never see the need to do more than an IM series of back.

I really hate to say it, but I'm going to have to agree with Paul on this one. Timm, I, too, want to encourage anyone and everyone to choose the treadmill over the couch. However, I think that a main reason that people give up their quest for fitness, is that they don't see results. If you're trodding along without ever increasing your heart rate or effort level, you aren't going to get much out of it. (Isn't the definition of insanity, "doing the same thing the same way over and over and expecting a different result"?). If you don't stress your body in different ways, you won't see increases in fitness and decreases in body fat. The body has an amazing way to adapt to stressors, and once it adapts, you need to change your routine to keep progress moving forward.

I've spent a little time trying to determine why some people aren't interested in doing what it takes to improve and some of those people say they want to enjoy their time in the pool rather than subject themselves to the pain/discomfort associated with swimming really fast. I am not a member of this group, I want to improve. I do admit however that my technique is so poor that I have tended to concentrate more on improving technique than improving conditioning and pain tolerance. Anyway, I'm getting off topic, it is just a question I find interesting. Back on topic, I would sign up for Leonard's training program in second!

I'm reading a book right now by Roy Benson called The Runner's Coach . It is aimed at training foks in distances of 800 meters to the 5k which is equivalent to the 200 to the 1500 in swimming. What I like is that he divides the season into four training phases to allow the body to make "physiological adaptations" - endurance training, stamina, economy, and speed. Even in the endurance phase, on the hard days he has you doing "aerobic speed work." These efforts are capped at 80% effort. When you move up to phase II, stamina, you go to longer 85% efforts. Phase III, economy, on the hard days, you do things like 12 x 400 meter runs at 90-95% effort with a 200 meter recovery jog between each 400. In the the last phase, speed, he has you doing 100% efforts that are capped at 30 seconds. An example might be 4 x 150M, 6 x 100M, then 8 x 50M runs. In general, he has you going 3 easy days and 3 hard days a week. I would guess that if you only had time to train 4 days a week, you would go 2 hard and 2 easy. The easy days are all at 60% while the hard days are just HARD! I like the idea in swimming because you can go hard for one practice and then use the next one just to recover. I think particularly for masters, this would be best to allow a full day to recover from a hard day of going all-out. Seems like then recovery days could be drills aimed at working on technique.