Much has been discussed on this topic but i wanted to revisit it after watching the track & field championships and remembering debates about how much pool training time swimmers put in relative to a runner competing in the equivalent event (a 400m runner to 100m swimmer).
What got my attention on this again was a recent article in Men's Fitness about Jeremy Wariner, specifically his training week during mid-season:
M= 200's: 8 x 200's two minutes followed by 40 yd sprints w/20 seconds rest
T= 350m: 2 x 350's followed by 1 x 300, one minute rest then a 100m to simulate the end of the race
W= 450m: 2 x 450's each under 1:00 with 9 minutes rest between each
Th= 90m: Recovery day each run in an "X" pattern
F= 100m: last run of the week is multiple 100m sprints
That's an insanely lower amount of training time than even i put in....Ande & Jazz come to mind.
More of this in an excellent article:
"Elite coaching special - Clyde Hart coach to Michael Johnson and Jeremy Wariner"
Here's are a couple of excerpt:
Clyde believes the principles of training are the same for many events: "I trained Michael Johnson like I trained a four minute miler. A four minute miler was doing a lot of the same things Michael Johnson was - a lot of the same things in training but more of them.
"The longest workout we have ever done - not counting warm up and warm down - would be under 20min, I think we have never worked more than 20min. That's not counting the Fall phase.”
So here's my challenge...I'm going to pick one of the next seasons (either SCM this fall or SCY in the spring) and try and adapt to this regime...anyone else game?
Practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect.
Train all the quality you want but if your doing it with improper technique although you may be "fast" and see "improvement" its very doubtful you'll ever know just how could you have been or could be.
Well, obviously, but, as you say, it isn't widely available in masters swimming. (S)he-Man's experience seems very unique and is the product of training with a high level USS team. And there is a difference between "quality" and "perfection." That was my only point. I'm well aware that my breaststroke is stuck in the gutter without some big time assistance.
I agree in that there are a lot of good self-coached masters swimmers out there. But how many *greats* are out there? I may be wrong, but let's say I qualify as a "good" swimmer. Well, after today's practice and being shown all the errors and such that I make, my thoughts were, "What a mess!"
So, I felt I was performing "quality" but not according to my coach - and she was right b/c I could make the corrections and I saw/ felt a difference. I've also had a world record holder point out lots of errors that I make throughout practices. So, I'm not swimming quality to him.
You are right in that it's all relative. For me, I feel that a good way to look at it is that when you are feeling like you've gotten to a decent level, get some additional/ new feedback if possible and then you'll realize you can hold yourself to an even higher standard.
When I think "quality," I think of Paul Smith as he does bring that term up quite a bit. So, I think of someone who is performing skills (again, not even thinking about speed or distance yet) during practice at an ex-NCAA Div I level or a masters World Record holder level. Now that's some quality.
And it's :rant3::rant3: challenging to swim that way! And let me clarify, I'm still not there yet.
Leslie, this quote of yours stood out for me:
First, I'm in the same boat with my back AND ***. :laugh2: But here's where it gets interesting. Take my (our) beloved fly - something that I think is pretty good. Well, turns out there are TONS of specific things I need to continue to fix. Woa! :eek:
Anyway, what I thought was quality was not. I think that's what one of my coaches was referring to when he said I had a "limited swimming background."
To be clear...I "struggle" with almost every single stroke. I can feel that I'm not where I need to be mainly with my left arm/catch/recovery and it drives me crazy..using a snorkel helps a lot but I will continue to strive for perfection and accept that its unlikely to ever be reached.
For those that don't have access to a day in/day out coach that can offer high level evaluation there are quite a few outstanding clinics available all over the country...be sure they tape...and I strongly suggest that any self trained swimmer who really does want some good feedback to look into attending one.
I think that's what one of my coaches was referring to when he said I had a "limited swimming background."
Well, I'm down in the gutter with you. Frankly, without having any feedback, I already know there are a million things I could improve on. My list is so long, I simply can't address everything in the practice time I have. So I chip away or change focus periodically or ignore things like breaststroke. I got a lot of good tips at Nats, and I do at local meets as well thanks to forumite attendance. I'd love to go to a clinic, maybe one day I will, but I wouldn't trade it for a travel meet. Not yet anyway. Fortunately, when I do get to a team practice, I am coached by an able, credentialed swimmer. Yet I still feel I could use vastly more feedback.
Using your definition of "quality," then, I propose that 99.99% of masters swimmers are not having quality workouts.
Now, Paul, if you're "practicing perfect," haven't you achieved "perfection?" Or "quality?" The snorkel is at the bottom of my to do list. I've tried it, but don't like it. Can't breathe.
Gosh, I'd give anything to have a coached practice! I coach a small group of folks once a week, but other than myself, the closest coached practice is 1.5 hours away and takes place at 5 am in the morning. I love swimming but not enough to drive 3 hours roundtrip during the early hours of the morning.
Not only is it great to have a coach to watch your strokes, but it is also great to have one to push you. I am so lazy and I know no coach in his right mind would have me doing what I did today -
300 warm-up
4 x 100 dolphin kick (no fins) on 2 min, hold under 1 min.,30 sec. (the colon key on my computer is broken)
4 x 50 rt arm/lt arm fly on 1 minute
100 easy
End of workout.
Isn't that pitiful?
Former Member
How do you define "quality?" I'm thinking it can't be 100% true since there are many good self-coached masters swimmers.
I agree in that there are a lot of good self-coached masters swimmers out there. But how many *greats* are out there? I may be wrong, but let's say I qualify as a "good" swimmer. Well, after today's practice and being shown all the errors and such that I make, my thoughts were, "What a mess!"
So, I felt I was performing "quality" but not according to my coach - and she was right b/c I could make the corrections and I saw/ felt a difference. I've also had a world record holder point out lots of errors that I make throughout practices. So, I'm not swimming quality to him.
You are right in that it's all relative. For me, I feel that a good way to look at it is that when you are feeling like you've gotten to a decent level, get some additional/ new feedback if possible and then you'll realize you can hold yourself to an even higher standard.
When I think "quality," I think of Paul Smith as he does bring that term up quite a bit. So, I think of someone who is performing skills (again, not even thinking about speed or distance yet) during practice at an ex-NCAA Div I level or a masters World Record holder level. Now that's some quality.
And it's :rant3::rant3: challenging to swim that way! And let me clarify, I'm still not there yet.
Leslie, this quote of yours stood out for me:
I'm well aware that my breaststroke is stuck in the gutter without some big time assistance.
First, I'm in the same boat with my back AND ***. :laugh2: But here's where it gets interesting. Take my (our) beloved fly - something that I think is pretty good. Well, turns out there are TONS of specific things I need to continue to fix. Woa! :eek:
Anyway, what I thought was quality was not. I think that's what one of my coaches was referring to when he said I had a "limited swimming background."
Former Member
So, I felt I was performing "quality" but not according to my coach - and she was right b/c I could make the corrections and I saw/ felt a difference.
If Tiger Woods always has a coach (and he has being playing golf since he was 4), I figure most masters could use a swim coach to keep an eye on them, at least every now and again.
It is easy to get into bad habits and reinforce them by swimming uncorrected.
Also I found it very interesting that although I've brought it up several times so many people here still equate "speed" work with "sprinting".
...easy speed is a crucial element for everyone and just baning out max yardage every workout and avoiding speed work (IMO) is a mistake if you want to improve.
By the same token I think there's an assumption that to bang out max yardage means you're swimming everything at aerobic pace.
The snorkel is at the bottom of my to do list. I've tried it, but don't like it. Can't breathe.
Leslie give it another chance. Hand's down its the single best piece of equipment I use for technique work. I also use it with fins for long kick sets (kicking 6 x 6).
By the same token I think there's an assumption that to bang out max yardage means you're swimming everything at aerobic pace.
Bodies adapt when you keep the same workload and never move out of zone 1-2, quality work changes the energy systems used and forces the body to change/develop.
I look at swimmers who do longer distance base aerobic work the same as that person who goes to the gym 6 days a week and reads a book while sitting on a bike or walking on the treadmill. Even fitness swimmers need quality speed work.
Bodies adapt when you keep the same workload and never move out of zone 1-2, quality work changes the energy systems used and forces the body to change/develop.
And I'm sure there are people who do stay at levels 1-2 for entire workouts, but there are also plenty of people who are doing lots of yardage AND mixing up the energy zones. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.
