Yes - one more time it's about the suit:
Here is a comparison to 2004 and what it took to make top 16 (top 8 for the 400) over the first 7 events:
2004 listed first then 2008 then the approx. % drop
400 IM - 4:24.8 to 4:21.0 1.5%
100 Fly - 1:01.29 to 59.97 2%
400 Free - 3:55.0 to 3:51.4 1.6%
400 IM - 4:49.57 to 4:43.2 2.3%
100 Br - 1:04.0 to 1:02.36 2.5%
100 Bk - 1:04.12 to 1:02.31 2.6%
200 Free - 1:51.1 to 1:48.76 2.2%
Ok - to be fair, people are getting faster, but I would guess at least a 1.5% drop across the board for the suit -- that is net time !
As Glen Mills pointed out and I discovered first hand testing a BlueSeventy last week the "flotation" that it provides as a significant impact on body position...
Paul, I did read what you wrote, what Glen wrote, what Fortress wrote, and what SVDL said in her interview. It was a little contradictory: you felt a major difference in body position. Glen did not, but felt it helped his underwaters a lot (you said the same). Fort disagreed with that, saying it didn't seem to help her SDKs. And SVDL didn't feel any different and swam slower than with the FSPro.
I think relying on feel is subjective and can be misleading. I've had some fast swims when I've felt terrible in the water, and some mediocre swims when I felt great. Ultimately it is about time, not feel.
Speaking of times: George brings up a good point too. Through four days, we've had some nice and exciting swimming...but no real jaw-dropping WRs, as we saw with the 50 free when the LZRs first came out. Phelps was slower with the LZR than a year ago in the 200 fly and free...is he more than 2% slower now than a year ago? I don't think so. His 400 IM saw a 1-second improvement, but this isn't 2% and his WR was set at the END of a long World Champs schedule while this swim was at the beginning and he was pushed by Lochte. I don't think the LZR was the cause of the improvement. Other WRs were incremental improvements over past ones. Add a 2% correction and Piersol and Hansen are quite a bit slower than they have been in the past.
I will indeed give the B70 a try this summer (no way was I going to get the current generation of LZR). But if I go faster than last summer, I can't be sure how much is the suit or not, since I'm swimming faster now than I was back then and I was also recovering from a broken hand.
The next time I taper/shave for a meet in trials and finals format, I'll compare the B70 to briefs or jammers to see the difference...much as I did with the FSII, finding no drastic difference. This is, I think, the only true way to test the suit: rested and shaved under race conditions, keeping everything else the same. Your experience in practice is nice and I enjoyed reading it, but it isn't the same.
Paul are you saying that these great swims are only because of a swim suit. No world record set, it should say Phelps, wearing a floating device.
Next year it will be Phelps wearing swim paddles.
After that Phelps wearing zoomers.
What bogus type swimming is coming next.
Phelps is slower than his 200 fly WR by a fraction should he not be faster by 2 percent? Did he wear a LZR in March 2007, when he set his WR.???
...What this will do to things like TI is going to be interesting because it for the most part compensates for both fatigue and poor technique...
Doubtful. I'm by no means fast, but yesterday in a 2k lake race I passed a few people who were wearing full-length neoprene wetsuits (I was in an ordinary swimsuit). There is always going to be a need for good technique.
that was an interesting final in the backstroke, the two legskins (peirsol and grevers) beat the two bodyskins (lochte and bal). new world record. 'nuff said.
Did I notice Peirsol wearing a LZR? Kind of a blow for Nike if so.
I'm saying its a combination of things, but the suits have advanced the times significantly/
Lezak goes 47.58 after "toiling" in the 48+ range for 8 years...he trains on his on, has not changed anything...and he put an LZR on tonight.
He did have it on this morning when he went 48.15 I think. I don't think you can take all the credit away from Lezak. I'm sure he didn't drop 8 tenths all on his own but it wasn't all suit.
All the things you guys are describing show the improvements made in the last 20 years. More pros - better training - longevity of swimmers - and so on. And again this time around we would have seen another small improvement in times --- but please somebody explain the 200 Free improvements for men and women. They dropped more in the last 4 years than all 20 years before combined. I am not backing off anything - there is a massive drop of about 2% - just check all the events.
Again, again, again, the suit is likely helping to some degree (although not sure why it would help the 200FR more than any other event).
One hypothesis for a jump in performance in the U.S. men's 200FR is the 4-minute mile effect. Recall that once Bannister broke through that purportedly impossible barrier, others soon followed. Thorpe's record at 1:44.1 seemed pretty unattainable for a long time - the best US guys were hovering in 1:46/7 territory. Then Phelps drops a couple 1:45's, then the big 1:43.9. The rest of the US guys realize what they have to do to be a player in this event. They study his splits, see how he works his turns. Heck, several of the guys among the 200 FR elite train with Phelps every day (PVK, Vendt, Tarwater)--or are good friends with him (Lochte), or have coaches that share some training ideas (Bowman -->Reese). Phelps elevated everyone's game in this event.
By the time I put on one of those suits, I would be too tired to swim and the race would already be over.
Will one fit me that would be the first question? How do I get 250 lbs of jelly into one of them?
Is it possible that the LZR helps in some events more than others?
One could hypothesize that it helps the most in sprint freestyle for example.
I still think the question of whether the new suits immediately help everyone who puts one one is less interesting than whether they help some people, and of course who they help the most and how. Also, how much one can learn to use them to best advantage. Purely as an example, it could be that they help people who have less than perfect body position more than people who don't. Or they reduce form drag in streamline to varying degree based on body type and style such that Kitajima gets a big advantage while some other swimmer who wears legskins doesn't.
Does anyone know how many of the WRs have been in full body suits versus legs-only suits?
