Some quick numbers on the new suits

Paul, I did read what you wrote, what Glen wrote, what Fortress wrote, and what SVDL said in her interview. It was a little contradictory: you felt a major difference in body position. Glen did not, but felt it helped his underwaters a lot (you said the same). Fort disagreed with that, saying it didn't seem to help her SDKs. And SVDL didn't feel any different and swam slower than with the FSPro. I think relying on feel is subjective and can be misleading. I've had some fast swims when I've felt terrible in the water, and some mediocre swims when I felt great. Ultimately it is about time, not feel. Speaking of times: George brings up a good point too. Through four days, we've had some nice and exciting swimming...but no real jaw-dropping WRs, as we saw with the 50 free when the LZRs first came out. Phelps was slower with the LZR than a year ago in the 200 fly and free...is he more than 2% slower now than a year ago? I don't think so. His 400 IM saw a 1-second improvement, but this isn't 2% and his WR was set at the END of a long World Champs schedule while this swim was at the beginning and he was pushed by Lochte. I don't think the LZR was the cause of the improvement. Other WRs were incremental improvements over past ones. Add a 2% correction and Piersol and Hansen are quite a bit slower than they have been in the past. I will indeed give the B70 a try this summer (no way was I going to get the current generation of LZR). But if I go faster than last summer, I can't be sure how much is the suit or not, since I'm swimming faster now than I was back then and I was also recovering from a broken hand. The next time I taper/shave for a meet in trials and finals format, I'll compare the B70 to briefs or jammers to see the difference...much as I did with the FSII, finding no drastic difference. This is, I think, the only true way to test the suit: rested and shaved under race conditions, keeping everything else the same. Your experience in practice is nice and I enjoyed reading it, but it isn't the same. A caveat about my SDK comment. I haven't been training SDKs as much since Nats, and I think this was somewhat reflected in my last meet. In fact, I recall Hulk saying I didn't spend as much time underwater in fly and that my backstroke turns were "mediocre." So, the suit did not compensate for training problems in my case. I'm not sure about the body position issue. I think it's harder to tell in sprints. The main sensation I felt was that my pull was stronger. But I did go faster than in my Pro last December. (I was tapered for the Dec. meet, however, I felt "off" and disliked the pool.)

The next time I taper/shave for a meet in trials and finals format, I'll compare the B70 to briefs or jammers to see the difference...much as I did with the FSII, finding no drastic difference. This is, I think, the only true way to test the suit: rested and shaved under race conditions, keeping everything else the same. Your experience in practice is nice and I enjoyed reading it, but it isn't the same. With regard to bodysuits in general--not the LZR or B70--and their effect, I actually conducted such a test at the Nationals in Austin. I'm in my 50s and grew up shaving for big meets and of course wearing briefs. I've worn bodysuits before but have always preferred the feeling of the water on my skin, and continued to believe I could be faster if I was fully shaved and tapered and wearing a brief. So, on Friday, I swam the 50 free and 50 fly wearing a vintage "paper suit" brief. Times were 26.05 and 22.82. On Sunday, not really being in shape to swim a good 100, I decided to wear a Fastskin Pro bodysuit and go all out on the first 50 of each. Times were 25.12 and 22.30. Clearer water might have made a slight difference, and I made a stroke adjustment in the fly, but there's no doubt the principal difference was the suit. Any remaining skepticism I had is gone. Lindsay makes a good point, however--it doesnt mean that will happen for everybody. We often see this in swimming: there is no universal stroke technique or workout routine or dryland training regimen. What works for one person may not for another because of difference in body type and physiological makeup.

A caveat about my SDK comment. I haven't been training SDKs as much since Nats, and I think this was somewhat reflected in my last meet. In fact, I recall Hulk saying I didn't spend as much time underwater in fly and that my backstroke turns were "mediocre." So, the suit did not compensate for training problems in my case. I'm not sure about the body position issue. I think it's harder to tell in sprints. The main sensation I felt was that my pull was stronger. But I did go faster than in my Pro last December. (I was tapered for the Dec. meet, however, I felt "off" and disliked the pool.) Fort, EVERYONE knows why your pull was stronger...!:weightlifter: Thinking some more about this...last year at World Champs, Phelps had a remarkable drop in the 200 fly (1:53.7 to 1:52.0) wearing the FS-Pro. Nowadays, of course, everyone would nod knowingly and assert that, without question, the improvement was mostly due to the LZR. At the time, I seem to recall that a lot of people attributed it to an improved strength program. (Hey, Fort, maybe YOU can start swimming the 2-fly now!!) But it occurs to me that perhaps it was the FS-Pro that was really a leap forward and the LZR was just an incremental improvement. I know that the U of Richmond coach believes that might be the case (or maybe he just doesn't want to blow his entire budget to outfit the team with LZRs). This conjecture maybe explains much of the data as well as the LZR explanation (eg, why Piersol didn't beat his WR by more, why Phelps didn't improve on his fly time to 1:49.9, as Erik once speculated, etc). Just thinking out loud, we are all really just whistling in the dark here...

So, on Friday, I swam the 50 free and 50 fly wearing a vintage "paper suit" brief. Times were 26.05 and 22.82. On Sunday, not really being in shape to swim a good 100, I decided to wear a Fastskin Pro bodysuit and go all out on the first 50 of each. Times were 25.12 and 22.30. I remember when you posted that. I did my experiment at a USA-S meet, so no 50s, and I used the FSII not the FS-Pro. I didn't have the same improvement as you -- my times mostly got slower with the FSII, actually -- but I'm willing to repeat the experiment with a different suit. It probably won't be until next spring, however. It may well depend on the swimmer and the event. I remember Paul wondering if the B70 was better for bigger swimmers. (In a way that seems pretty unfair...Paul already has an advantage in reach over most people and now he might get to negate one of the downsides of being big...). I also remember cursing my body suit at the end of the 200 fly, when I felt like I couldn't get enough air...! By the way, 22 is a pretty smoking 50 fly time :)

Phelps was slower with the LZR than a year ago in the 200 fly and free. Has Phelps worn the full-body LZR yet during Trials? So far I've only seen him wear the legs. I've heard a lot of talk about the corsetting effect of the full-body LZR, so maybe Phelps isn't getting this by only wearing the legs.

Fort, EVERYONE knows why your pull was stronger...!:weightlifter: Thinking some more about this...last year at World Champs, Phelps had a remarkable drop in the 200 fly (1:53.7 to 1:52.0) wearing the FS-Pro. Nowadays, of course, everyone would nod knowingly and assert that, without question, the improvement was mostly due to the LZR. At the time, I seem to recall that a lot of people attributed it to an improved strength program. (Hey, Fort, maybe YOU can start swimming the 2-fly now!!) But it occurs to me that perhaps it was the FS-Pro that was really a leap forward and the LZR was just an incremental improvement. I know that the U of Richmond coach believes that might be the case (or maybe he just doesn't want to blow his entire budget to outfit the team with LZRs). This conjecture maybe explains much of the data as well as the LZR explanation (eg, why Piersol didn't beat his WR by more, why Phelps didn't improve on his fly time to 1:49.9, as Erik once speculated, etc). Just thinking out loud, we are all really just whistling in the dark here... Gah. I guess I deserve all the public and private mocking after declaring myself a tank and announcing I was quitting weight lifting. lol. I think since I train alone mostly, I'm more apt to try out theories and see how they work. I'm not willing to try out the 200 fly though. I don't think "less is more" works for that. I think you're onto something with the Pro being the key innovation. I noticed a big difference between the FS II and the Pro. Had the sensation of zipping through the water faster, especially in and out of turns. Don't have any clue about the LZR. Like you, I had no intention of ordering it. Didn't Phelps wear a full body LZR in the 200 free?

Has Phelps worn the full-body LZR yet during Trials? So far I've only seen him wear the legs. I've heard a lot of talk about the corsetting effect of the full-body LZR, so maybe Phelps isn't getting this by only wearing the legs. Pretty sure he wore it in the 200 free.

Phelps was wearing an FSII jammer in that race. By golly, you're right. Boy he is really stinking it up this year if he went slower with LZR legskins. :) I smiled at his comment after the race that taking out the race in 53+ was being "too conservative." Geez, Mike, grow a pair would you? :) (I was impressed enough when he took out the 400IM in a 55.)

I remember when you posted that. I did my experiment at a USA-S meet, so no 50s, and I used the FSII not the FS-Pro. I didn't have the same improvement as you -- my times mostly got slower with the FSII, actually -- but I'm willing to repeat the experiment with a different suit. It probably won't be until next spring, however. It may well depend on the swimmer and the event. I remember Paul wondering if the B70 was better for bigger swimmers. (In a way that seems pretty unfair...Paul already has an advantage in reach over most people and now he might get to negate one of the downsides of being big...). I also remember cursing my body suit at the end of the 200 fly, when I felt like I couldn't get enough air...! By the way, 22 is a pretty smoking 50 fly time :) Chris that was the point I was making in my earlier post...that I had tried each generation of the suits up to the BS (but no LZR or TYR yet). The difference in material between an FS Pro and a B70 is night and day...the B70 and TYR suits look, feel and smell like wetsuits...and unlike the older fabrics of the Speedo fastskin/Pro's they do not absorb water...another major difference. George, when you go try a few come back and chat...

I still want proof positive. Are LZRs better? Is Ying Fa faster then LZR? Do some swimmers use Illegal potions? Did Clemens cheat on his wife? Did Clemens use anabolic steroids? Is Wonder Bra coming out with the Swim Slim Girdle?