How much does a good kick contribute?

Tough sets Whitney doesn't assign many fast kicking sets or write down results she did write down times on the fast 500's we did a week or 2 ago, she said we're going to do the set again 5 or 6 weeks later, since I'm focusing on 50's & 100's I'm probably not going to go for it like I otherwise would I do free, fly, back, and SDK in practice I believe if I train for and improve in one of the strokes, I tend to drop proportionately in the others Thanks on my freestyles, lately I've been working on freestyle and occasionally pop some times that surprise me like last summer I did a LCM roll start 50 fr at Mabel Davis in 24.1 I tend to swim fast in practice and believe the faster I swim in practice the faster I'll swim in meets. I need to work on aggressive SDKs of the 2nd & 3rd turns in the 100 bk swimming faster in May depends on getting stronger weighing less and swimming fast in practice This past season I thought I'd go faster in the 50 fr than 24.69 in that race, I didn't hit the turn right so I didn't get a good push off I also touched with the wrong hand, in the past I've sometimes had good drops from prelims to finals, like in 1984 at a pre national meet, I went 24.7 in the 50 fr in prelims then 24.0 at night Chris you've inspired me to do a more fast 75's & 100's kick in practice take care, Ande The 100s were on the 4:00. We do a similar set swimming off the blocks. Other test sets we do include -- 5 x 200 on 7:00 (this set is just brutal) -- 10 x 100 on 2:00 for best average -- Drop out 50s, starting at 1:00, dropping 1 sec for each one, and lasting as long as possible. These are all recorded; when we are about to do a test set, the coach will post the previous results. We probably do each one every 4-6 weeks. On the kick set, I went from a push and kept underwater as long as I could (didn't worry about 15m on the first lap, came up at the flags) and kicked flutter when I surfaced each time. I did a backstroke flip (one pull) at each wall. I think the mental part is mostly during training; once you've conditioned your body to swim that way in practice then the race itself isn't bad at all. High-rest test sets are good as gauges but they are also a great way to reproduce what you feel at the end of a race, in practice. But it is (mentally) VERY tough to truly leave it all in the pool and learn to swim through the pain. You do a lot of race-pace stuff in your practices, of course, and I am always very impressed with your speed. I can't go that fast in freestyle in practice! Good luck with your training. Chris

chris, 15/25 = 60%, where did 66% come from? Well, it is 15m so that's about 16.4 yards. 16.4/25 = 65.6%. I came across the following in an interview with Berkoff (emphasis mine). ********snip********* Q: When did you first realize that you could kick underwater faster than you could swim backstroke on top of the water? Follow up: how did you start incorporating the blastoff into your training and racing after you had the idea? Berkoff: My freshmen year I was goofing around in a kind of phony intrasquad meet we had where the upper classmen were supposed to woop up on all of the underclassmen. I did a 15 meter kick out off the start just to be a goof and I looked back and saw that I had just smoked everyone. That was the first time that the idea (of kicking out 15meters or more off each wall) occurred to me. In terms of the progression from that to me actually doing it well, it was slow. I had to completely change my training to increase the speed and endurance of my kicks, as well as getting my body to adjust to being in a hypoxic state. I started trying it in dual meets, and I would get huge leads at first and then lose it at the end so I had to train for a while before my body got used to it. ********snip********* DEFINITELY true in the 200 events! When I first started really emphasizing this sort of training I was struck by the huge disparity in the speed of SDK in, say, the 50 and the 100. For example, I could go 27-28 for a push 50 without too much problem at all (ie, feeling that I still had some gas in the tank) but I would be huffing and puffing to go 1:04-1:05 in the 100, even though I was in good overall shape. After working on it a lot in the past months I recently had a breakthrough test set of 5 x 100 kick where I averaged 59.5. The hypoxic work is important too. Try fast 75s or longer SDK taking at least 10 underwater kicks per lap. Or do longer backstroke sets (like the 500s you sometimes do) and don't worry about time -- go a good cruising speed -- but get at least 6 kicks per lap. Or do 50s on the 1:00 and don't come up until after the flags on BOTH lengths of the pool. Things like that.

It sounds like someone allmost agrees with the full stroke, Keep It Simple idea. I have used the full stroke concept since 1952. My favorite Swim Clinic coaches were Councillman, Silvia and Tommy Walker. The leg kick falls into place naturally when you think about the arm stroke.

In any group of swimmers, from your local Masters club to the elites of the world, the fastest swimmers will usually also be the fastest kickers. Years of personal experience, study of the dynamics of every stroke, observation of thousands of students -- and reading Doc Counsilman's analysis years ago -- have led me to believe that's simply because the same talents that tend to make people faster than others in whole stroke also make them faster while pushing a kickboard down the pool. I'm far less inclined to believe that the training they do on the kickboard makes any special contribution to their whole-stroke speed. I.E. If they did no kickboard training, they'd still be the fastest swimmers - in some cases they might even be faster. In 1968 when I began swimming in college I saw that the fastest kickers were the fastest swimmers and, like most people, thought there was a linkage. I was a slow kicker on the board and my legs frustrated me while swimming. They usually "died" during races and generally felt ineffectual. So I worked hard at kickboard sets and progressed to being able to make 50-yd repeats on a 45-second interval and generally finishing among the leaders on those sets. Trouble is that had zero effect on how my legs worked when swimming. They still felt ineffectual and hurt like hell at the end of races. Even so when I began coaching in 1972 kickboard sets were a staple of the workouts I gave and remained so for nearly two decades. When I began Masters swimming in 1988 I picked up the kickboard again and really worked at it. I still felt betrayed by my legs in races. In 1988 I met Bill Boomer and he told me that his swimmers at the University of Rochester never used a kickboard and never seemed to be harmed by that. He also taught me about balance. After I mastered it my legs never died again in a race -- even though I'd gradually given up the kicking sets in my own training. In 1996 I became a volunteer coach at West Point on the condition I be given the most under-performing group. That was the sprinters. Taking to heart what Boomer had said, we didn't do a single lap with kickboards over the next three seasons. We did work on underwater flutter and dolphin, high intensity and short duration, with and without fins. We also did a modest amount of high-speed swim sets with fins to "overload" the legs. But when we took the fins off I never urged anyone to kick "harder." Far more frequently I urged them to "tune" the kick to the rest of the stroke. What I looked for was the kick to blend seamlessly with the entire movement and never to have an appearance that the kick was "powering" the stroke. Rather I wanted to see harmony among all parts. During those three seasons, the Army sprinters all recorded lifetime bests, and my small group won five of the six Outstanding Swimmer awards in the Patriot League. Without kicking. I've done the best swimming of my life in the last two years. Much of the credit for that goes to a "project" I've pursued to finally integrate and coordinate a lifetime "disorganized" 2-Beat Kick. In the course of that project I've examined and tweaked every aspect of that kick -- amplitude, direction, timing, power source -- 90% of that examination occurring in the context of whole-stroke practice. This is because all of the errors in my prior kick occurred as a result of my legs reacting to incorrect movements elsewhere - head, arms, torso. No amount of kickboard training could have done anything to illuminate the complex interactions that caused my legs to misbehave as they had, or correct them. The only thing it was ever good for was to improve my ability to push a kickboard down a pool - an event for which I'll never fill out an entry form. In filming or observing hundreds of Masters swimmers in all strokes, I see a wide range of "unconscious" inefficiencies related to the kick. As with my 2BK errors those inefficiencies are often caused by things that happen in the upper body. And the corrections that make the kick "work" need to be made in the upper body. Kicking on a board does nothing to address it. Even kicking without a board does little or nothing to address it. You can only begin to understand them when swimming whole stroke -- but in an "examined" way. Even the SDK is not actually a kicking exercise. That too is a whole-body exercise and will improve most when every body part is coordinated optimally to interact with the legs. The hands and forearms play a role in channeling the energy. The core is essential to controlling the amplitude of the movement and to stabilizing the bodyline from sternum to fingertips so the undulation from hips to toes moves you forward efficiently. One's ability to maximize speed while minimizing energy cost and oxygen debt depends heavily on neuromuscular training to recruit just the right motor units at very particular amplitude and frequency. That's the secret..? Working your kick at the same time you are working your arms, thinking about movement and coordination...? I have a very poor kick on the 500 free and 100 fly, but for some reason I have good kick on the 50 free, and 50 fly. :dunno:

I think that the 2 biggest problems with kick boards are 1) they tend to get you out of streamline(I know they don't have to and that some are better than others,but for most it is true.) 2) it is very easy to kick mindlessly with them. "Mindful"kicking helps with streamlining as well as lower body(total body with dolphin kick)strength. Every month in Swimming World the have an interview with a different coach and every month the coach says how important technique and KICKING is to their program's success.

Originally Posted by KaizenSwimmer In 1988 I met Bill Boomer ...He also taught me about balance. After I mastered it my legs never died again in a race. I would love it if you could expand on this. Far more frequently I urged them to "tune" the kick to the rest of the stroke. Just how exactly does one teach this? Or is it just a feeling or a rhythm that has to be attained like in the fly? 90% of that examination occurring in the context of whole-stroke practice. I think if your problem is 'kick integration' then this is what you should be spending more of your time on. Perhaps if your kick is already well integrated and you are looking just to increase the power of the kick or improve endurance, then kickboard kicking would be beneficial. As with my 2BK errors those inefficiencies are often caused by things that happen in the upper body. And the corrections that make the kick "work" need to be made in the upper body. What corrections, would you say, are the most important? Syd

I think the mental part is mostly during training; once you've conditioned your body to swim that way in practice then the race itself isn't bad at all. So true. If you can do it in training then it shuld be a breeze in competition. My most recent mantra: "Syd, you are a powerful kicker!" ;) Syd

Terry, You mentioned in your previous post... "but I've changed my recovery, entry, extension and catch" Will you please explain how and why you changed each to the forum? I have seen some of them in person but I am sure that you have altered them some more since last Nov/Dec. Also, in watching the dvd I just got, from the time you filmed it until now, have you altered the 2bk? In the video, it does seem kinda wide, almost out of the cylinder of the body...maybe due to swimming in the current, but it looks a bit unnatural.

Thanks for sharing the changes.

One's ability to maximize speed while minimizing energy cost and oxygen debt depends heavily on neuromuscular training to recruit just the right motor units at very particular amplitude and frequency. I've been really enjoying Terry's posts... Check out Ian Crocker's fly kick, and his ankle flexibility, www.youtube.com/watch Guys like Phelps, Ian Crocker, and Chris Stephenson have this "natural" ability... I didn't... the dolphin kick brought me years of frustration in the water, until I found this; forums.usms.org/showpost.php Try to have the best range of motion possible in your ankles, that will improve your kick, (and swimming), for sure. (This might take years of training, it took me over six years of consistent effort to attain these results. When I started I couldn't get my knees off the ground!) forums.usms.org/showpost.php