Originally posted by Paul Smith
Here's the deal folks...forget about weights...if you REALLY want to make a significant break through in your swimming relative to competition stop swimming for 4-8 weeks and go to kick only workouts...as you ease back into swimming you will have the opportunity to "learn" how to integrate a new and powerful element to your stroke...something that 90% of the swimmers I see competing do not do well....
This really caught my attention. I seem to have been hearing this a lot lately: people coming back after a shoulder op, doing kick only workouts and then having their best seasons ever.
I don't doubt the authenticity of it either. I am just interested on what is actually going on. Why should this be the case?
Has anyone ever scientifically measured the amount the kick contributes to forward propulsion? I mean ratio wise, compared to the arms, what would it be? 80% arms : 20% legs?
What about the swimmers who are great kickers in workouts but can't translate it into faster swimming?
How do we actually integrate the kick into our swimming so that it becomes a new and powerful element to our stroke as Paul suggests?
Would it be fair to say that a big part of the improvement these (post op/ focus on kicking )swimmers achieve can be attributed to the strengthened core which is a result of the additional kicking. In other words more credit given to the strengthened core than increased forward propulsion.
I don't know. I just throw out these ideas for discussion.
Syd
Syd,
To answer your question, search out your nearest paralympic swim competition and watch those guys. You can see the effect in two ways:
1 - in those who don't have use of their legs, you can see how much drag it creates
2 - those who do have use of their legs, but not their arms, you can see how blazingly fast they go with a great kick.
The USOC sponsored a Paralympic open meet at UMD last week - I was unable to make it due to traffic, but everyone who did said it was truly inspiring.
Does anyone know where I can get some kick only workouts. I have an injury and while I can swim I'm trying to be careful (but of course I want to stay conditioned and if possible improve!)
Try Kickin' It at Arizona from this site: www.flocasts.org/.../workouts.php
Not for the faint of heart.
On the subject of kicking....
Does anyone know where I can get some kick only workouts. I have an injury and while I can swim I'm trying to be careful (but of course I want to stay conditioned and if possible improve!)
Thanks,
Whitney
There is no doubt what so ever that having a very strong "integrated" kick can dramtatically help achieve faster times....and not just in sprints. Go back and look at Ian Thorpe when he first started swimming mind blowing WR's in the 200 AND the 400 using an insanely powerful 6 beat kick...Phelps has taken it to a new level with his use of SDK's layered in on his already powerful freestyle kick and it led to his 200 freestyle breakthrough this past summer...he was outswam between the walls by PVH.
I emphasis "integrated" above because as many of you have seen/experienaced a lot of strong "kickers" can't coordiante that strength with their arm/core movements....Quicksilver....I will tell you that for me my turnover slows down slightly when I engage my kick (6-8 beat)
So how do you "integrate" I suggest applying the Fartlec concept to your kicking...no board...and varying distances....change it up between a 6 x 6 switch, 3 x 3 and straight swim, something like:
400 (freetstyle position) rotating 25-6 x 6, 25-3 x 3, 25-easy swim with 2 beat kick building to 6 beat kick, 25 going as far on the push off as you can with a constantly increasing kick speed.
Also...the worst thing i see peple doing to supposedly try and build a stronger kick is the use long fins with a bid whale type dolfin kick or low tempo kicking. If you want to use fins for this put on a small pair of hand paddles and do power 25's/50's (easy to fast, fast to easy, all easy all fast) with lots of recovery.
Has anyone ever scientifically measured the amount the kick contributes to forward propulsion? I mean ratio wise, compared to the arms, what would it be? 80% arms : 20% legs?
Syd
Somewhere, someplace, a long time ago (sounds like the start of a story) I recall reading that something between 5 and 10% max is the leg contribution. I remember that at issue was the fact that the legs will consume a disproportionate amount of energy compared to their contribution if you aren't somewhat selective with their "integration". In other words, you'll run out of oomph before you run out of race if you're not careful.
Kick 25 as hard as you can. Count normally, not hte number of kicks.
rest 1/2 the number you counted. If you counted to 30 during your kick, rest to 15. Count at your normal speed. In college, If you can count in a language that isn't your first language, it is even more effective. I use either French or Swedish. Once this woman thought I was going insane. I didn't realize that I was counting aloud.
Kick 50 as hard as you can. Count normally, no the number of kick
rest 1/4 the number ou counted. If you counted to 30, count 8.
You have to do thiese very fast.
Repeat until you think you are going to die!
kick 5 x 100 yards doing the same thing. After each 100 yd kick rest 1/8 the number you counted.
As an aside comment. Counting in a different language than you normally speak is a really great way to develop pace. I once had a coach for running from Nigeria. He has us counting in all sorts of languages. It is more difficult ot count in a foreign language and loose your pace I think because you are thinking. If I count in ?English I start to rush, especially with my stroke count.
Somewhere, someplace, a long time ago (sounds like the start of a story) I recall reading that something between 5 and 10% max is the leg contribution. I remember that at issue was the fact that the legs will consume a disproportionate amount of energy compared to their contribution if you aren't somewhat selective with their "integration". In other words, you'll run out of oomph before you run out of race if you're not careful.
Jim, I remember reading this as well. My question was wether or not you can "train" this muscle group to be far more conditioned and impactful in swimming...much as you see in cycling and running.
In my opinion we are just starting to really see what the results can be when given more attention...if this is the largest muscle group than why can't it conceivably contribute 50-70%?
When we see underwater specialists like Lochte, Coughlin, Grevers, Crocker and now Phelps going 8, 10, 15 meters kicking it makes me think some have already figured this out.
kicking is VERY IMPORTANT
why not try this
1) swim a 50 free AFAP with a 2 beat kick for time
2) swim down rest 15 - 30 minutes then
3) swim a 50 free AFAP with a 6 beat kick
I also know that if you focus on your kick you will get faster
Ande
This really caught my attention. I seem to have been hearing this a lot lately: people coming back after a shoulder op, doing kick only workouts and then having their best seasons ever.
I don't doubt the authenticity of it either. I am just interested on what is actually going on. Why should this be the case?
Has anyone ever scientifically measured the amount the kick contributes to forward propulsion? I mean ratio wise, compared to the arms, what would it be? 80% arms : 20% legs?
What about the swimmers who are great kickers in workouts but can't translate it into faster swimming?
How do we actually integrate the kick into our swimming so that it becomes a new and powerful element to our stroke as Paul suggests?
Would it be fair to say that a big part of the improvement these (post op/ focus on kicking )swimmers achieve can be attributed to the strengthened core which is a result of the additional kicking. In other words more credit given to the strengthened core than increased forward propulsion.
I don't know. I just throw out these ideas for discussion.
Syd
It's clear that for me the kick is much more important when swimming breaststroke. I can swim 25yds with six strokes after the pullout. I can kick it (no board, no sculling) in about eight kicks after the pullout. Pulling with a buoy I flail badly. In fact, so badly that I've never bothered to count strokes. Probably at least 15 though.
Now I don't have hard numbers for free (I was counting *** kick and stroke last night, so my feeble neuron hasn't completely forgotten that info yet), but on a good day I can do 10 strokes per 25 swimming, and probably 12-13 pulling. Kicking? that's where I flail in free. So for me at least, my kick doesn't add much for free. Clearly, it's something I should work on more.
Skip Montanaro
