How much does a good kick contribute?

"...low amplitude, "social" kicking is worthless." Unless you want to interact with teammates (or in my case talk to myself) and not be in danger of taking oneself too seriously. Sorry to be mental but what is SDK? I got dolphin kick, but what is the S for? Hopefully not single because that would be redundant.

Hi Kurt, SDK is Streamline Dolphin Kick I got tired of writing out Streamline Dolphin Kick in my blog so I called it SDK "...low amplitude, "social" kicking is worthless." Unless you want to interact with teammates (or in my case talk to myself) and not be in danger of taking oneself too seriously. Sorry to be mental but what is SDK? I got dolphin kick, but what is the S for? Hopefully not single because that would be redundant.

Thanks for posting that kick workout Paul. It is just the kind of workout I was looking for. Of course I will have to modify the intervals, though. It is just not possible for me to do 12 x 50m on 1:00 min. I am not able to go under .50 secs for a 50 m flutter kick even though I can go .21 for 25m. That second 25 kills me. There is so much lactate acid build up that my legs go all stiff and can hardly move. It's agony and I have to rock my whole body just to get forward momentum. I don't use fins. I get great 'feel for the water' when I use fins but it doesn't seem to transfer well when I take them off. My legs feel dead in the water. It is like strapping on a 50 horse power outboard motor to practice and then only having a 5 horse power motor when it counts. Perhaps it is because my kick isn't integrated with my pull at all. I don't have any of that feeling of connection between pull and kick that Tree describes: Originally posted by Tree Then one day all of a sudden it really came naturally. My kick and pull felt sort of connected. There was one primary sign I presumed indicating this: I sometimes felt that one beat of my left leg down kick can combine my left arm pull to produce a little bit more propulsion (just a feeling. no empirical evidence). But I cannot feel the same with my right leg kick and right arm pull. There are some other signs too, like, my thighs were sore after some intensified practise, my ankles were more relaxed, I can slow down the arm pull tempo but still feel fluidly going forward. Of course it is far from being a well integration of kick and pull. But I can sense that I am moving towards the right direction. Syd

"...low amplitude, "social" kicking is worthless." Unless you want to interact with teammates (or in my case talk to myself) and not be in danger of taking oneself too seriously. Sorry to be mental but what is SDK? I got dolphin kick, but what is the S for? Hopefully not single because that would be redundant. You always crack me up! On the meaning of SDK, I think it stands for streamlined or submerged dolphin kick.

Sadistic Death Kick :bolt:

Perhaps it is because my kick isn't integrated with my pull at all. I don't have any of that feeling of connection between pull and kick that Tree describes: Syd Syd, It was just my personal feeling. I think it is very likely that each one feels different. So do not just fix your feeling on my descriptions. Anything feels comfortable should mean that progress is being made. I read some articles before at http://www.h2oustonswims.org/ about how to coordinate kick with pull. I never did really apply the training part of them into my swimming partially because they are a little bit advanced stuff to me. But still a good read and make you think of your kick trainings.

is it 15 meters in yards pools never knew that I need to do more hard longer kicks like your impressive 5 x 100 averaging 59.5 whitney assigns a lot of fin kicking what do you do when you run out of air and surface what interval were you on it's good when you can find that easy speed gear for the 100 to get out fast and relaxed yet have legs and gas to attack the SKDs in the 2nd 50 and closely split the race I wonder how much is mental vs physical Well, it is 15m so that's about 16.4 yards. 16.4/25 = 65.6%. I came across the following in an interview with Berkoff (emphasis mine). ********snip********* Q: When did you first realize that you could kick underwater faster than you could swim backstroke on top of the water? Follow up: how did you start incorporating the blastoff into your training and racing after you had the idea? Berkoff: My freshmen year I was goofing around in a kind of phony intrasquad meet we had where the upper classmen were supposed to woop up on all of the underclassmen. I did a 15 meter kick out off the start just to be a goof and I looked back and saw that I had just smoked everyone. That was the first time that the idea (of kicking out 15 meters or more off each wall) occurred to me. In terms of the progression from that to me actually doing it well, it was slow. I had to completely change my training to increase the speed and endurance of my kicks, as well as getting my body to adjust to being in a hypoxic state. I started trying it in dual meets, and I would get huge leads at first and then lose it at the end so I had to train for a while before my body got used to it. ********snip********* DEFINITELY true in the 200 events! When I first started really emphasizing this sort of training I was struck by the huge disparity in the speed of SDK in, say, the 50 and the 100. For example, I could go 27-28 for a push 50 without too much problem at all (ie, feeling that I still had some gas in the tank) but I would be huffing and puffing to go 1:04-1:05 in the 100, even though I was in good overall shape. After working on it a lot in the past months I recently had a breakthrough test set of 5 x 100 kick where I averaged 59.5. The hypoxic work is important too. Try fast 75s or longer SDK taking at least 10 underwater kicks per lap. Or do longer backstroke sets (like the 500s you sometimes do) and don't worry about time -- go a good cruising speed -- but get at least 6 kicks per lap. Or do 50s on the 1:00 and don't come up until after the flags on BOTH lengths of the pool. Things like that.

is it 15 meters in yards pools never knew that I need to do more hard longer kicks like your impressive 5 x 100 averaging 59.5 whitney assigns a lot of fin kicking what do you do when you run out of air and surface what interval were you on it's good when you can find that easy speed gear for the 100 to get out fast and relaxed yet have legs and gas to attack the SKDs in the 2nd 50 and closely split the race I wonder how much is mental vs physical The 100s were on the 4:00. We do a similar set swimming off the blocks. Other test sets we do include -- 5 x 200 on 7:00 (this set is just brutal) -- 10 x 100 on 2:00 for best average -- Drop out 50s, starting at 1:00, dropping 1 sec for each one, and lasting as long as possible. These are all recorded; when we are about to do a test set, the coach will post the previous results. We probably do each one every 4-6 weeks. On the kick set, I went from a push and kept underwater as long as I could (didn't worry about 15m on the first lap, came up at the flags) and kicked flutter when I surfaced each time. I did a backstroke flip (one pull) at each wall. I think the mental part is mostly during training; once you've conditioned your body to swim that way in practice then the race itself isn't bad at all. High-rest test sets are good as gauges but they are also a great way to reproduce what you feel at the end of a race, in practice. But it is (mentally) VERY tough to truly leave it all in the pool and learn to swim through the pain. You do a lot of race-pace stuff in your practices, of course, and I am always very impressed with your speed. I can't go that fast in freestyle in practice! Good luck with your training. Chris

I'm far less inclined to believe that the training they do on the kickboard makes any special contribution to their whole-stroke speed. I.E. If they did no kickboard training, they'd still be the fastest swimmers - in some cases they might even be faster. I disagree with his conclusion, but Terry brings up several good points. One of them is this: being fast with a kickboard is not the same thing as integrating your kick with your stroke. I also agree with him that kickboard training CAN BE ineffective in improving swim times. In my experience -- and I've swum with many teams -- it is EXTREMELY rare to find swimmers putting forth the same effort on kick sets as they do on swim sets. Light kicking sets, especially with a kickboard, are worse than useless since they take time that could otherwise be devoted to productive efforts. And time is usually a limiting factor in USMS workouts. There is, of course, no reason that kicking sets have to be with a board. In fact, I would say that about 75% of my own kick sets are without a board (usually on my back). A set can also be "kick focused" rather than a traditional kick set with a board. There are many productive ways to do this. There are two distinct areas in which kicking is an advantage: during the stroke itself and off the walls. I feel that Terry is mostly concerned with "kick integration" in his message, but the effect of a good SDK can be huge. Consider that up to 66% of a race in SCY can be done underwater, though the number is usually in the range of 20-50% depending on the event and the swimmer. In LCM the upper limit is 30% and in OW swimming, of course, it is zero. (In OW swimming the kick is important really only in bursts for position or at the end of the race.) Certainly good swimmers tend to have good kicks and that observation alone does not necessarily mean that one causes the other. But ANYONE can improve their kick, and I think kicking or "kick focused" sets are the best way to do so. I'm sure most of you have watched Phelps' 200 LCM free world record. Van den Hoogenband was clearly faster between the walls for 150m of the race but Phelps crushed him on the walls, particularly the last one. This was the result of a conscious decision by Phelps to improve his SDK.

chris, 15/25 = 60%, where did 66% come from? slow kicking can be beneficial if the swimmer is 1) concentrating on DPK (distance per kick) or 2) recovering from or getting ready for fast kicking kicking fast for time is the best thing swimmers can do (one all out 25 SDK trumps 20 at 60%) Benchmark and beat is the way to go develop a deadly SDK Practice using your improved kick when you swim swim at race speed with integrated legs and try this drill do 25s swimming with smooth relaxed arms while kicking at race speed Experiment with KICKING GEARS Learn to kick fast and relaxed, not quite all out Learn to correctly split races by controlling the effort of your kick Saving your legs is a wonderful thing in a 200 even in a 50, you won't swim as fast as you can if you blow your legs on the first 25, you have to be in the game at the 25, hit an awesome turn, great pushoff/streamline/SDK/breakout this is more important in 100's, 200's & up Develop a weapon and use it. I disagree with his conclusion, but Terry brings up several good points. One of them is this: being fast with a kickboard is not the same thing as integrating your kick with your stroke. I also agree with him that kickboard training CAN BE ineffective in improving swim times. In my experience -- and I've swum with many teams -- it is EXTREMELY rare to find swimmers putting forth the same effort on kick sets as they do on swim sets. Light kicking sets, especially with a kickboard, are worse than useless since they take time that could otherwise be devoted to productive efforts. And time is usually a limiting factor in USMS workouts. There is, of course, no reason that kicking sets have to be with a board. In fact, I would say that about 75% of my own kick sets are without a board (usually on my back). A set can also be "kick focused" rather than a traditional kick set with a board. There are many productive ways to do this. There are two distinct areas in which kicking is an advantage: during the stroke itself and off the walls. I feel that Terry is mostly concerned with "kick integration" in his message, but the effect of a good SDK can be huge. Consider that up to 66% of a race in SCY can be done underwater, though the number is usually in the range of 20 - 50% depending on the event and the swimmer. In LCM the upper limit is 30% and in OW swimming, of course, it is zero. (In OW swimming the kick is important really only in bursts for position or at the end of the race.) Certainly good swimmers tend to have good kicks and that observation alone does not necessarily mean that one causes the other. But ANYONE can improve their kick, and I think kicking or "kick focused" sets are the best way to do so. I'm sure most of you have watched Phelps' 200 LCM free world record. Van den Hoogenband was clearly faster between the walls for 150m of the race but Phelps crushed him on the walls, particularly the last one. This was the result of a conscious decision by Phelps to improve his SDK.