Originally posted by Paul Smith
Here's the deal folks...forget about weights...if you REALLY want to make a significant break through in your swimming relative to competition stop swimming for 4-8 weeks and go to kick only workouts...as you ease back into swimming you will have the opportunity to "learn" how to integrate a new and powerful element to your stroke...something that 90% of the swimmers I see competing do not do well....
This really caught my attention. I seem to have been hearing this a lot lately: people coming back after a shoulder op, doing kick only workouts and then having their best seasons ever.
I don't doubt the authenticity of it either. I am just interested on what is actually going on. Why should this be the case?
Has anyone ever scientifically measured the amount the kick contributes to forward propulsion? I mean ratio wise, compared to the arms, what would it be? 80% arms : 20% legs?
What about the swimmers who are great kickers in workouts but can't translate it into faster swimming?
How do we actually integrate the kick into our swimming so that it becomes a new and powerful element to our stroke as Paul suggests?
Would it be fair to say that a big part of the improvement these (post op/ focus on kicking )swimmers achieve can be attributed to the strengthened core which is a result of the additional kicking. In other words more credit given to the strengthened core than increased forward propulsion.
I don't know. I just throw out these ideas for discussion.
Syd
I wonder if there should really be two threads:
1) How much does a good underwater dolphin kick contribute?
2) How much does a good flutter kick contribute to on the surface freestyle?
Clearly Phelps, Coughlin, Crocker, etc. are getting a lot out of their underwater kick, is it as clear that flutter kicking on the surface is having the same huge effect? I would say it is not AS clear.
Someone recently posted a youtube link for the Sydney 2000 4x100, it was pretty clear that Klim killed the field with great underwater work, setting a WR in the process.
Lindsay,
Good points....I've wondered the same as well but will say that watching Cielo go 18.6 (?) in the 50 at last years NCAA's without an SDK is testament to the strength of a huge freestyle/flutter kick. GHJ swims the same...he gets up and going off the start and turn without SDK....and he can kick a 50 scy free in 23+.
On a personal level...I tend to go back and forth a bit right now. Although I can and do go 10-15yds (m) SDK off starts/turns in a 50 (free, fly and back) I rarely use anything more than 1 or 2 SDK in the 100 and up...
Geek,
how do you do that?
in case you hadn't noticed
she's fairly easy on the eyes
along with several of our frequent female posters here.
was it because she was swimming so fast?
I was marveling at the whole weekend (in a non sexual way, for the record).
There's no denying swim meets are full of beautiful people. I do try to notice the swimming, for the most part. I would have hated for her to come all the way to CLT and only think that she got leered at the whole time, wouldn't be very hospitable of us.
test it and find out where you fall
do 3 fast 100 frees:
1) no SDK / 2 beat kick
2) no SDK / 6 beat kick
3) SDK / 6 beat kick
I wonder if there should really be two threads:
1) How much does a good underwater dolphin kick contribute?
2) How much does a good flutter kick contribute to on the surface freestyle?
Clearly Phelps, Coughlin, Crocker, etc. are getting a lot out of their underwater kick, is it as clear that flutter kicking on the surface is having the same huge effect? I would say it is not AS clear.
Someone recently posted a youtube link for the Sydney 2000 4x100, it was pretty clear that Klim killed the field with great underwater work, setting a WR in the process.
On a personal level...I tend to go back and forth a bit right now. Although I can and do go 10-15yds (m) SDK off starts/turns in a 50 (free, fly and back) I rarely use anything more than 1 or 2 SDK in the 100 and up...
That's what I used to do, but I'm trying to do more in my 100s, especially on the starts. I took 10 SDKs on my 100 free start in Dec. and wasn't any worse for it.
It is a little frightening that (S)he-Man is so fast without any SDKs to speak of! Even on fly?! But way to go for beating the boys. Congrats to Geek too for a PB. Can't beat that.
Experts: what percentage of our workout should be kicking?
(Uh, I think I would have admired (or been jealous of) (S)he-Man's taut figure! Woot!)
I confess, I admire both, we can read the menu
Geek, the committee just met
Turn in your man card.
Immediately
There's no denying swim meets are full of beautiful people. I do try to notice the swimming, for the most part. I would have hated for her to come all the way to CLT and only think that she got leered at the whole time, wouldn't be very hospitable of us.
Geek, the committee just met
Turn in your man card.
Immediately
Geez louise - it's not like I'm dead, just don't feel the need to chat it up on a web forum. This is what happens when you live with all women, you become lame.
just giving you a hard time
you can keep your man card
if I was at that meet
I would have marveled too
Geez louise - it's not like I'm dead, just don't feel the need to chat it up on a web forum. This is what happens when you live with all women, you become lame.
Experts: what percentage of our workout should be kicking?
I don't know about "should be" -- or even "expert" -- but I can tell you that I am not happy unless I do at least one hard kick set in each practice. It can vary, of course, but we often have 3 hard sets after warmup: a longer set, a kick set and a quality set. (That last is also pretty demanding of the legs.) The kick set is usually roughly 800 yards, give or take; sometimes it is much more. I never use fins (hurts my knees b/c it causes them to hyperextend too much) though others in the practice often do.
From the layman's point of view:
Let's assume the speed effect from the kick is not great--for a moment.
Everyone would agree that kicking hard sucks the life out of you; overdo it too early and it's "jello legs" for the rest of the way or until you recover...either way you feel it and or have to reduce your pace.
So back to my point, kicking hard in practice will help your "engine" get used to running more efficiently, or in pain, and allow your upper body to work harder for longer. So even if direct power is not provided by the legs, I feel that there would be at least a "knock on" effect to the system at large because of the conditioning.
Now kicking hard and not being a good technical swimmer may not add much and may even make things worse if it disrupts the flow of water over the body. For a good swimmer though, and all the way up to an elite swimmer, this is not likely to be the case.
Good kicking has to help otherwise nobody would do it in races; if you work on it and it gives you a second /100 yards, over a 500 or 1000 that's very significant.
I think you need both a vessel and an engine. Just kicking all the time or wearing fins all the time will not help but hammering your legs once a week or perhaps more will surely add to your swim.
Back to the experts...
