How much does a good kick contribute?

I don't know about "should be" -- or even "expert" -- but I can tell you that I am not happy unless I do at least one hard kick set in each practice. It can vary, of course, but we often have 3 hard sets after warmup: a longer set, a kick set and a quality set. (That last is also pretty demanding of the legs.) The kick set is usually roughly 800 yards, give or take; sometimes it is much more. I never use fins (hurts my knees b/c it causes them to hyperextend too much) though others in the practice often do. For me it also depends on what part of the season I'm in...right now I'm still swimming longer sets/workouts and try to get in at least 1/3rd as kicking only, for example today was (LCM): Swim 8 x 100's @ 1:30 descend 1-4, 5-8 Pull 4 x 200's @ 3:00 descend 1-4 Kick 2 x 400's (6 x 6 with fins and snorkel) @ 6:00 800 IM 50 swim/50 kick/50 drill/50 kick If the shoulders are trashed like they were all last week from water polo I'll kick the whole workout.

I wonder if there should really be two threads: 1) How much does a good underwater dolphin kick contribute? 2) How much does a good flutter kick contribute to on the surface freestyle? Clearly Phelps, Coughlin, Crocker, etc. are getting a lot out of their underwater kick, is it as clear that flutter kicking on the surface is having the same huge effect? I would say it is not AS clear. Someone recently posted a youtube link for the Sydney 2000 4x100, it was pretty clear that Klim killed the field with great underwater work, setting a WR in the process.

I would like to do more fast kicking in practice we did a lot at UT We rarely do fast kick sets i'd love to do stuff like 5 x 200 desc on 3:30 1) 60% 2) 70% 3) 80% 4) 90% 5) AFAO for time or 8 x 100 desc 1 - 4 twice or 5 x 50 on 2:00 AFAP best average or 10 x 25 odds easy on 1:10 evens AFAP on 0:20 I hope to return to my 25 & 50 All out SDKs for time I might venture out into 75's and 100's lately I've been playing with fast 25 BR

Small world there Aquageek!! I had no idea that was you next to me! Way to go on the personal best! What was your final time or how many seconds did you knock off? St. Jean got me for sure on that race but I felt like he did up my game! I was trying to keep up with him! North Carolina has some super fast gals. I know I'll be running into them later on in the season. ARG! Some of them really could kick my butt (they have in past years!) You are waaaaay too generous on the complements. Thank you. All I can say is hubby taped my races and it's very apparent that I've got plenty of work to do. :whiteflag: I own an aquablade (about 3 years old!?); 1 speedo kneeskin; and 1 blue monster speedo fastskin. I think I'm going to pony up and spend some bucks on the newer fastskins (speedo fastskin pro). BTW, 5 years older than me!? You look VERY fit. I thought you were my age. Early/ mid 30s. :bow: Until we meet again. . . in the 500, 1000 or 1650? Well, heck, I didn't realize that was (S)he-Man I was marveling at the whole weekend (in a non sexual way, for the record). What a great swimmer you are!!! I was actually in lane 2 to your lane 3 in the 500. We were also in the same heat in the 1000 I suspect. I almost came up to you before the 500 to see if you were really planning on going your seed time of 5:23, hoping I'd catch the wave and get pulled along. Glad I didn't try to keep up with your 5:12 pace, even though I did set a PB on that event myself. You are one heck of a swimmer and clearly the best female swimmer at the meet. My 8 year old daughter was killing me all the way home about getting smashed by a "girl." I informed her that I was smashed by a girl 5 years younger than me, which really didn't help my case but it was all I had. Many of the faster NC females from the Raleigh Area Masters (RAM) team did not make the trip. Had they been there, you would have had more competition. How many technical suits do you own, btw?

Small world there Aquageek!! I had no idea that was you next to me! Way to go on the personal All I can say is hubby taped my races and it's very apparent that I've got plenty of work to do. :whiteflag: Can you please post this on youtube...? :drink:

Kick is important for sprints, the farther you go it changes its use and used mainly as a balancer.

:2cents: The past two weekends, I have swum the 100 free in meets. Last weekend, last event (of three) in a deep pool w/ bulkhead, warm air, wore aquablade jammers, and ride the wake of a guy who went 47.82, and went 53.54 myself. This weekend, in a deep pool, but shallow lane, concrete/metal wall, warm air, speedo and racing the guy next to me, I went a 53.8. BOTH times, I felt like the SDK on my dive and subsequent transition kicking were AWESOME, catching a lot of water, very efficient and very effective. I was able to maintain a strong kick throughout, nailing all turns w/ at least 1 SDK, and then bringing it home hard. My 100 free history shows that I do not often make it to 53.99 or under outside of a Zone or National Championship meet, and to do it two weekends in a row. I'd say the kicking has something to do with this. Just 1 SDK? I normally get 3 good ones off the dive then 2 a turn after that...once I feel I'm losing the snap I flutter...

Well, heck, I didn't realize that was (S)he-Man I was marveling at the whole weekend (in a non sexual way, for the record). What a great swimmer you are!!! I was actually in lane 2 to your lane 3 in the 500. We were also in the same heat in the 1000 I suspect. I almost came up to you before the 500 to see if you were really planning on going your seed time of 5:23, hoping I'd catch the wave and get pulled along. Glad I didn't try to keep up with your 5:12 pace, even though I did set a PB on that event myself. You are one heck of a swimmer and clearly the best female swimmer at the meet. My 8 year old daughter was killing me all the way home about getting smashed by a "girl." I informed her that I was smashed by a girl 5 years younger than me, which really didn't help my case but it was all I had. Many of the faster NC females from the Raleigh Area Masters (RAM) team did not make the trip. Had they been there, you would have had more competition. How many technical suits do you own, btw?

Crud! I just got back from Charlotte and look what I missed! Geek is VERY manly - and in excellent physical shape might I add! No need for him to turn in his "man" card. I looked like CRAP in the blue TRON suit. NO ONE was missing anything. He's being very kind and not saying anything about my androgynous, flat chested figure which I fully blame on Speedo. They need to hire some female product designers with some kind of power ASAP! :lmao: Stud and Leslie, let me catch my breath and hit the PM practice today and at some point in the next day I may post my 100 fly. It clearly shows TERRIBLE turns w/ no SDK. You will get a good laugh out of it. I am fully embarrassed by it and will suffer the forum consequences. Kirk, you are so out of my league I have to ask if you have been hitting the :drink::drink: 5:01?! :bow: What's your 1650 or 1000 time? I'm still thinking that you're out of my league here too. What does the winner get? Loser suffers public humiliation? I will get than upon posting my fly race. :frustrated: I think my coach reads this forum. She's going to kill me in all upcoming practices! :toohurt:

The "propulsive form" of flutter to which Firby refers is the 6BK. The "position-control" form is the 2BK. I paid $142 for a rare copy of Firby's book two years ago, after an on-line search that lasted about six months. It's been worth every penny. -- Terry Terry, intersting article. I am however skeptical because I simply can't dismiss the incredible kicking ability we are seeing today vs. in the 20's and 30's (granted I wasn't there). Can you really say that the kick of; Natalie, Phelps, Crocker, Grevers, Misty, etc. etc. etc. are not having an incedible effect on speed/forward propulsion?