How much does a good kick contribute?

I'm the opposite -- much more comfortable on my back. First thing: verify your streamline is still correct, with your ears between your arms (watch the head position). If that is fine, then ask yourself: why are you weaker? It is much the same motion. Is it a comfort thing? If so, practice until it feels comfortable Water up your nose? I exhale continuously while on my back but I guess there are other methods (nose plugs?). Not sure. I can go 15 meters if I get a good start on backstroke, but get less than half that far on turns (I'm guessing.) I think I run out of air. Or perhaps I go deeper on my start than turn and I'm in better position to SDK? It's also easier to slowly exhale for me on fly. In a 100 back, each turn is worse. I can't keep a nose plug at all. So right now there is no 200 back in my future. lol. I'll try that extra bend at the waist before I surface. My breakouts could use work too.

Not sure. I can go 15 meters if I get a good start on backstroke, but get less than half that far on turns (I'm guessing.) I think I run out of air. Or perhaps I go deeper on my start than turn and I'm in better position to SDK? It's also easier to slowly exhale for me on fly. In a 100 back, each turn is worse. I can't keep a nose plug at all. So right now there is no 200 back in my future. lol. I'll try that extra bend at the waist before I surface. My breakouts could use work too. Sounds like some hypoxic work is the ticket. Do some lungbuster 50s where the first length is moderate backstroke kick or swim (all the air you want), then you flip and go as far and fast as you can underwater. Definitely try to get PAST the 15m mark. Do a set of 8 or 10 with at least 20 seconds rest between each. My wife -- a lawyer -- would naturally want me to add that you do this at your own risk...:D

Sounds like some hypoxic work is the ticket. Do some lungbuster 50s where the first length is moderate backstroke kick or swim (all the air you want), then you flip and go as far and fast as you can underwater. Definitely try to get PAST the 15m mark. Do a set of 8 or 10 with at least 20 seconds rest between each. My wife -- a lawyer -- would naturally want me to add that you do this at your own risk...:D Assumption of the risk is not a blanket exemption to liability. Ha, ha. Waivers are no good either, according to Geek. I do loads of shooters, but tend to do them on my stomach or side. I'm very attached to my monofin. I guess I've have to buckle down and do some of those nasty 50s. Thanks for the advice.

Great post Carrie! I do tend to view SDKs as significant to my shoulder health. Here's some questions: 1. I tend to be weaker SDK-ing on my back. Not off the start so much, but off the turns. What's the best way to improve that? 2. What's the best way to integrate your flutter kick with your freestyle? I think I'm fast kicking with a board, but not so swell kicking otherwise in non-50 distances. 3. If you're better SDK-ing on your side than your back, should you do more side kicking in backstroke? I guess maybe this is one of those test it and time it things. I only see a few people SDK-ing on their side. 4. When you're SDK-ing, what role do your arms and upper body play? Thanks, Leslie! You're getting advice from people a lot more knowledgable than me on your questions, but here's a few thoughts... On the back sdk'ing, do you blast out too much of your air on your turns? I do... then I don't have much air left to leak slowly out my nose as I'm kicking. Something to check next time you're doing a backstroke set. Also, according to my PT, kicking on your back (whether dolphin or flutter) puts more emphasis on hamstrings. Usually, people's quads are relatively more developed than their hamstrings, and hamstrings are usually less flexible than quads. You were a runner for years... runners are notorious for tight hamstrings. Maybe some hammie exercises and stretches might help? Certainly won't hurt and will be good for your overall knee health (yeah... I know... I always have knees on the brain...) Re: integrating your flutter into your freestyle, one thing that has helped me is to do a 6-beat kick all the time. I try to keep my legs moving, even if the kick is very light. I liked Ande's suggestion of gears. When you do swim with your group, see if you can race people on the last 100 of sets by turning 'on' your legs. Or if you're leading your lane, try to pull away from folks with your legs. You can count your strokes to make sure you're not just spinning arms as you try to speed up.

interesting discussion I don't think swimmers are going 5 - 8 feet deep on SDKs I'd say it's more like 2 - 4, with 3 being ideal I'd add that if a swimmer sdk's on her side she doesn't need to go as deep Ande...the ones who are doing it with great success are going far deeper than you suggest...Coughlin kicked the bottom of the pool (7') coming off the turn when she first broke 1:00 in the 100m back a few years ago. And there is no way Crocker could go 10-15m off turns in the 100 coming off at 3-4'. And 3' would mean you are pretty much coming off in a straight line vs. the checkpoint analogy mentioned earlier....body types do come into play but i encourage people to play with it more and see for themselves. In fact at workout yesterday i had a couple of the swimmers do just this..and the checkmark analogy was key in them understanding. Both swimmers came up 3'-5' past the flags vs. about at the flags when they changed the attack angle and felt it was less effort (which would make sense).

on kicking gears I meant different gears in doing a six beat kick there's the 100% all out 6 beat kick and shades beneath it descending sprint kick sets can help swimmers learn how to do this ande Again, more excellent advice. If you want to improve the integration of your kick into your freestyle, practice it the whole time. Try shifting gears as Ande suggests. Changing from a 2 beat to a 4 beat to a 6 beat. Do this even while you are warming up and warming down. Don't let up on it. Not even when when you are doing that stretching out 200 after a really killer set. After a while it will become second nature. Syd

Thanks ande. I see fartlek kicking in my future. Doesn't the checkpoint or checkmark apply more to backstroke? I strongly encourage you to do the fartlek kicking Fort. It really helps. Paul reccommended it and I have been doing it for the past couple of weeks and already I can see positive results. It's not pleasant: my legs ache and I am out of breath after only 50m but my times are improving. You have to concentrate on form the whole time; even when the legs are aching from lactate acid buld-up. Re: integrating your flutter into your freestyle, one thing that has helped me is to do a 6-beat kick all the time. I try to keep my legs moving, even if the kick is very light. I liked Ande's suggestion of gears. Again, more excellent advice. If you want to improve the integration of your kick into your freestyle, practice it the whole time. Try shifting gears as Ande suggests. Changing from a 2 beat to a 4 beat to a 6 beat. Do this even while you are warming up and warming down. Don't let up on it. Not even when when you are doing that stretching out 200 after a really killer set. After a while it will become second nature. Syd

If you want to improve the integration of your kick into your freestyle, practice it the whole time. Try shifting gears as Ande suggests. Changing from a 2 beat to a 4 beat to a 6 beat. Do this even while you are warming up and warming down. Syd Syd beat me to suggest this. We had a coach that got us to do successive swim 50's, first with a 2 beat kick, then 4 beat, then 6 beat and finally an "overkick" 50. He gave them in the warm up set. I'm not really sure what the value might be but it was a big eye-opener for me (a 6 beat 'sprinter') - I found it tough to be smooth with the two beat, but at each level, you are forced to make adjustments to your stroke to feel comfortable. It certainly made you think and find the best integration at each level of kick. The "overkick" option is the only one I still do, however (it helps get those arms going). Ian.

Thanks. But no promises for next year, Ian. Can someone explain the rationale behind kicking high in freestyle? I can see that the fastest swimmers use this technique, but I was wondering why it's better.

Ageed, no promises. If I don't poke fun, Swimspud will. Your SCM 100m looks like a good target. It was only my second 100 free of my masters career. lol. I'm going to confound everyone by swimming a 200 IM next year instead. :joker: Rich: I definitely agree on the massive kicking. But is massive kicking the same as high kicking?