How much does a good kick contribute?

Here is a guy with a pretty good kick www.youtube.com/watch

I think all swimmers should do SDK's off turns during practice (unless they have a physical reason for avoiding, like lower back or hip issues for example). Here's my logic: Even if you're a fitness swimmer with no interest in ever ever competing or a competition swimmer who should never ever actually use the sdk in competition (I think this is me), doing SDK's in practice: 1. Is great core work and a heckuva lot more fun than crunches 2. Provides good breath control 3. Improves your streamline (you might as well work on your streamline if you're going to SDK... that is what the 'S' stands for after all) 3. Helps out your shoulders by probably reducing your stroke count by 1 or 2 in freestyle 4. Is a very sneaky way to get in a decent amount of dolphin kicking over the course of a practice for those of us who LOATHE kick sets of a non-breaststroke nature 5. After enough time, all that dolphin kicking can only help your butterfly... For the competitive swimmers out there, if you're training for a big end of season meet like Nationals/Zones/States, see if you can test the SDK out at an in-season meet (if you're lucky enough to have some in your area). I agree it's good to test out the SDK vs. flutter kick at practice, but it's even better to try it at a meet. Thing is, you don't want to try it out at your shave and taper meet.

Great post Carrie! I do tend to view SDKs as significant to my shoulder health. Here's some questions: 1. I tend to be weaker SDK-ing on my back. Not off the start so much, but off the turns. What's the best way to improve that? 2. What's the best way to integrate your flutter kick with your freestyle? I think I'm fast kicking with a board, but not so swell kicking otherwise in non-50 distances. 3. If you're better SDK-ing on your side than your back, should you do more side kicking in backstroke? I guess maybe this is one of those test it and time it things. I only see a few people SDK-ing on their side. 4. When you're SDK-ing, what role do your arms and upper body play?

You already apologized for talking like this about me. When I read this, I get the impression that you still have no idea what my background is, what my knowledge base is, and what my process is. This is especially astonishing to me because of the level of detail and the thoroughness of reasoning I have provided. I listened to your advice, but you are demonstrating a complete failure to listen to anything I've ever said to you. That's the biggest insult to me. If you think I should be doing something different, you ought to stop sniping at me in conversations with other people and tell me. Brian, sorry if you take these comments as a personal attack because they are not intended as such...you are blogging your training so you should expect for people to comment on it and if people disagree with you that is their right. Also, your background has nothing to do with what I posted, my point is that a well coached athlete is usually going to have a better chance to improve and stay safe than a self coached one. The fact that at your age your already having the injuries you mentioned tells me you would benefit from someone who can pull the reins back a bit when needed... As a coach and an athlete I am always looking to be "coached"....I try to be a lifetime learner if you will, however I do understand circumstances where people don't have access to coaches...or to quality coaches and train on their own. Its those people reading these blogs that I feel compelled to challenge some of the training strategies that are being blogged...and I think how you are training is high risk for most masters swimmers.

interesting discussion I don't think swimmers are going 5 - 8 feet deep on SDKs I'd say it's more like 2 - 4, with 3 being ideal I'd add that if a swimmer sdk's on her side she doesn't need to go as deep each person has to figure out what works best Train and experiment I wouldn't just test it one time, I'd use a test / train / test ... On SDKs this is what I think works best for me In the ____ I take ____ : 50 back 11 or 12 SDKs off each wall 100 back 8 - 10, I'd like to take 10 - 12 50 fly 6 - 8 100 fly 4 - 6 50 fr 5 - 7 100 fr 4 - 6 100 IM 6 - 8 fl, 10 bk, 1 br, 4 - 5 fr but that's what I feel works for me What works best for you?

hi paul, here's footage of Natalies 50 fr American Record at 1:18:250 at swimnetwork.com/index.php there's underwater footage off her turn at around 1:19:30 looks to me like the deepest she went was 3 or 4 feet deep off her turn here's crocker there's great footage of him off the start and turn www.youtube.com/watch how deep does he look off the turn? I think people tend to go deeper off starts than turns the cool thing about having a fast SDK is it allows swimmers to go way under the waves and their own draft before they break out Ande...the ones who are doing it with great success are going far deeper than you suggest...Coughlin kicked the bottom of the pool (7') coming off the turn when she first broke 1:00 in the 100m back a few years ago. And there is no way Crocker could go 10-15m off turns in the 100 coming off at 3-4'. And 3' would mean you are pretty much coming off in a straight line vs. the checkpoint analogy mentioned earlier....body types do come into play but i encourage people to play with it more and see for themselves. In fact at workout yesterday i had a couple of the swimmers do just this..and the checkmark analogy was key in them understanding. Both swimmers came up 3'-5' past the flags vs. about at the flags when they changed the attack angle and felt it was less effort (which would make sense).

fort, 1. I tend to be weaker SDK-ing on my back. Not off the start so much, but off the turns. What's the best way to improve that? be on your back more, SDKs that is do fast kicks for time 2. What's the best way to integrate your flutter kick with your freestyle? I think I'm fast kicking with a board, but not so swell kicking otherwise in non-50 distances. Learn how to fast blast flutter kick while you're swimming Learn gears or effort levels 3. If you're better SDK-ing on your side than your back, should you do more side kicking in backstroke? I guess maybe this is one of those test it and time it things. I only see a few people SDK-ing on their side. kick the way that is best for you if you don't know try all 4 back, belly, right side, left side I feel much more comfortable on my left side (left arm on bottom) 4. When you're SDK-ing, what role do your arms and upper body play? make a great streamline / body line SDK comes from the core

Thanks ande. I see fartlek kicking in my future. Doesn't the checkpoint or checkmark apply more to backstroke?

Adding my answers to Ande's: 1. I tend to be weaker SDK-ing on my back. Not off the start so much, but off the turns. What's the best way to improve that? I'm the opposite -- much more comfortable on my back. First thing: verify your streamline is still correct, with your ears between your arms (watch the head position). If that is fine, then ask yourself: why are you weaker? It is much the same motion. Is it a comfort thing? If so, practice until it feels comfortable Water up your nose? I exhale continuously while on my back but I guess there are other methods (nose plugs?). 2. What's the best way to integrate your flutter kick with your freestyle? I think I'm fast kicking with a board, but not so swell kicking otherwise in non-50 distances. I'll pass on this, since I don't really have a true flutter kick in my freestyle (you have to see it to understand; not something to emulate). 3. If you're better SDK-ing on your side than your back, should you do more side kicking in backstroke? I guess maybe this is one of those test it and time it things. I only see a few people SDK-ing on their side. A standard reason given for side SDK is to avoid generating surface waves, which wastes energy. I think this is a little bogus unless you are quite near the surface. In my last meet, the pool was only 4'8" deep on one side, so I couldn't have been too deep on turns, but I didn't see any surface waves on the video. One potential legitimate reason I can see is for feedback on depth below the surface. On my back, I know exactly how deep I am and so the breakout is easy to judge. On my stomach this is gone and I have a harder time with this. Kicking on the side might help, but after experimenting some I decided to forego this for now. 4. When you're SDK-ing, what role do your arms and upper body play? They should be still with arms rigid and as tight as you can make them. The narrower the "prow," the better the streamline (watch the elbows). You can also use hands/arms to control your depth. When I break out in backstroke, I believe I take a little extra bend at the waist and very slightly change the angle of my arms to go to the surface (it is hard to be sure exactly what I do without underwater video; it is mostly instinctive). Hope this helps, Chris

I too feel faster and more comfortable on my back ande Adding my answers to Ande's: I'm the opposite -- much more comfortable on my back. First thing: verify your streamline is still correct, with your ears between your arms (watch the head position). If that is fine, then ask yourself: why are you weaker? It is much the same motion. Is it a comfort thing? If so, practice until it feels comfortable Water up your nose? I exhale continuously while on my back but I guess there are other methods (nose plugs?). Chris