Originally posted by Paul Smith
Here's the deal folks...forget about weights...if you REALLY want to make a significant break through in your swimming relative to competition stop swimming for 4-8 weeks and go to kick only workouts...as you ease back into swimming you will have the opportunity to "learn" how to integrate a new and powerful element to your stroke...something that 90% of the swimmers I see competing do not do well....
This really caught my attention. I seem to have been hearing this a lot lately: people coming back after a shoulder op, doing kick only workouts and then having their best seasons ever.
I don't doubt the authenticity of it either. I am just interested on what is actually going on. Why should this be the case?
Has anyone ever scientifically measured the amount the kick contributes to forward propulsion? I mean ratio wise, compared to the arms, what would it be? 80% arms : 20% legs?
What about the swimmers who are great kickers in workouts but can't translate it into faster swimming?
How do we actually integrate the kick into our swimming so that it becomes a new and powerful element to our stroke as Paul suggests?
Would it be fair to say that a big part of the improvement these (post op/ focus on kicking )swimmers achieve can be attributed to the strengthened core which is a result of the additional kicking. In other words more credit given to the strengthened core than increased forward propulsion.
I don't know. I just throw out these ideas for discussion.
Syd
Former Member
Perhaps I'm reading too much into this, but I notice a pattern in some of your posts of a champion/loser dichotomy.
Brian,
I agree, you are making assumptions that are counter-productive. Afterall, not once on this forum have I said anyone was a loser. In fact, swimmers win, regardless of place!!
We should really keep on track here - Kick like the devil when you sprint. Ease off when you swim long.
Fastjack just to be clear I have never stated this and I don't agree with it, my mind was completely changed after watching Thorpe 6 beat kick his first400m free world record. There were always a few strong distance swimmer/kickers but he created a paradigm shift in the mindset of a lot of swimmers/coaches with what he did. So the point is really more of find what your capable of and go with it...
Fort...I disagree about the current level of fascination with SDK and believe it is a current "fad" mainly among masters swimmers who are not getting good coaching as to wether they are doing it effectively or even should be doing it. At every single meet I've swum the last 2 years I see more and more people using it....and typically they are swimming slower in my opinion because they have not been taught, figured out or simply don't have the physical gifts needed yet (and may never have) to achieve the proper depth and trajectory that is needed to maximize its potential advantage.
When you watch Coughlin, Phelps, Crocker, etc. they are going 5'-8' below the surface in order to get the length and proper surfacing angle...far to many folks literally are on the surface splashing away and slowing themselves down...or their breakouts are terribly splashy as well...there is a LOT of finesse to doing a proper SDK.
I am sure any one can do what they want, but they should only do SDK if it helps.
Hqw much improvement did it make in your times? Was it the SDK that made you faster or was it better conditioning because you did lots of SDK practice?
Come on Fort - You are a FINA and USMS Top Ten swimmer (in fly on top of that!) you will have a better SDK than most for starters.
Keep practicing SDKs in training for fun - it relieves boredom and is good for tummy muscles and feel for the water.
But use what is faster for you in a race (as has been said by others).
Ian.
True that. But I am a Paul Smith nightmare. I am largely self-coached and get my swim tips from blogs. (And thank god for ande, might I say!) I have only been working on SDKs for a year and have no idea if I'm doing them "right." I'm sure I could improve, especially off turns.
Look, I'm sure SDKs could be somewhat of an innate talent or dependent on body type, but I think you can get better through practice. And if you don't give it a good try, how do you know which way is ultimately faster for you?
Meanwhile, all this kicking I've been doing is kicking my ass.
I did 10-14 off the start (depending on stroke) at my last meet.
Paul:
This is a little reductionist, but are you saying that if you can't SDK like Coughlin or Lochte, you shouldn't do it? Or just that it's overused? Or that only a few can do it properly and most of us should put the energy into working on our kick instead?
I witnessed this and Leslie was happily doing her "Red October" stint while others wre up and 2or 3 strokes into their swim...I thought she was going to be way behind but she surfaced and was right at the mark with the leaders.
She could do it better I am sure, any of us can improve what we do, but I think she is doing it quite well. As for me I do a nice SDK to start...it's when it's time to start the actual swim it all falls apart!
I did 10-14 off the start (depending on stroke) at my last meet.
Paul:
This is a little reductionist, but are you saying that if you can't SDK like Coughlin or Lochte, you shouldn't do it? Or just that it's overused? Or that only a few can do it properly and most of us should put the energy into working on our kick instead?
Come on Fort - You are a FINA and USMS Top Ten swimmer (in fly on top of that!) you will have a better SDK than most for starters.
Keep practicing SDKs in training for fun - it relieves boredom and is good for tummy muscles and feel for the water.
But use what is faster for you in a race (as has been said by others).
Ian.
We should really keep on track here - Kick like the devil when you sprint. Ease off when you swim long.
Jonathon - I think if we praise some one too openly it makes everyone jittery. I like a lot of things I read here and a lot of stuff I don't like.
I seldom comment on some very good items because they stand alone without my input.
I do comment on some I don't like and allways will.
I do like it simple and don't like long winded posts.
Paul I thought a 400 was a sprint. Swim long is a mile or more...
Oops!!! I thought when I posted the last few posts I was, Geochuck not Fastjack
Fastjack just to be clear I have never stated this and I don't agree with it, my mind was completely changed after watching Thorpe 6 beat kick his first400m free world record. There were always a few strong distance swimmer/kickers but he created a paradigm shift in the mindset of a lot of swimmers/coaches with what he did. So the point is really more of find what your capable of and go with it...
.
Swimmers like Jazz Hands who are self coached are a perfect example...he is reading lifting magazines and reading swimming blogs and training himself...and at a very young age is already getting overuse injuries and using questionable techniques that down the road may really hurt him...pony up and get some good coaching (i.e. one on one not via the internet) through some outstanding clinics/trainers/etc. and do things right and you'll have longer term success.
You already apologized for talking like this about me. When I read this, I get the impression that you still have no idea what my background is, what my knowledge base is, and what my process is. This is especially astonishing to me because of the level of detail and the thoroughness of reasoning I have provided. I listened to your advice, but you are demonstrating a complete failure to listen to anything I've ever said to you. That's the biggest insult to me.
If you think I should be doing something different, you ought to stop sniping at me in conversations with other people and tell me.
