I am interested in knowing what swimming theory you use and why you use it. I hear much about Total Immersion and not just from this forum. I hear much about swimming high on the water slightly looking forward, and I hear much about people developing their own swimming theory best suited for them but using guidelines that help them maintain a technical stroke.
Given all these different theories, it is no wonder that swimmers new to the sport are confused as to whom to listen to.
I borrowed the TI book from a friend a year or so ago, and found several things I agreed with, but more that I didn’t. I am not close-minded, I just cannot find a reason to swim so low in the water with the head looking down. The rolling of the shoulders really concerned me and the fact that so much of the body is low-parallel to the water, this has to increase drag, especially on the shoulders. One thing I will say is most people who swim using TI have beautiful strokes. But, and there is a but, they just don’t swim fast. Maybe I have just been so isolated here on this island that I have not heard of any, but are there any Olympians using TI? Or, will the young-uns using it be our next generation?
There is a USMS club in Fort Worth who advocated TI. Sadly, now they are deconstructing all those methods because no matter what the workout and intensity, their swimmers’ speeds could never develop. I get to speak to many triathlete swimmers here every March. The Elite (professional) swimmers swim high on top of the water looking forward and they use hip rotation, not shoulder rolling. Many of the age-groupers in this event just don’t understand why they are not swimming faster using TI. Now, we all know that most of the triathletes who were swimmers first, and runners and bikers second, always fare better in the swim portion.
I have said this before and I will say it again, there is more than one way to swim. I swim higher on top of the water looking forward, about a yard or two and use hip rotation. The reason for this is picture a person throwing a rock that skims the lake. The rock is flying on top of the water and not in it, so it moves much faster until its momentum ceases. Now, I know people are not rocks, but the principle is founded. Swimming on top of the water generates power and the swimmer can truly feel it. I swim slightly “planed” outward and upward and skim over the water, not in it.
Nowadays, because I am older and carry more weight, I swim not quite as high on the water and this has evolved over the last ten years or so. So even though I started out swimming “high” on the water looking forward, my stroke has become my own personal one that suits me very well. I also want to mention that I am referring to only freestyle here even though with all of my backstroke days, I, again, swam rather “planed” upward because I could get more rotation on top of the water rather than “in” the water.
I am not trying to cause a brou-ha-ha. I am just curious about the swimming theories and why people select them. And after swimming with any specific theory, are you happy with it?
Donna
Former Member
I know the feeling. My point was that this is a fairly intense and demanding set, not what many of us would associate with TI. So perhaps we have misunderstood what a TI practice really entails. I have found that I fare better on a set like that when I really focus on technique (particularly toward the end) instead of just flailing away.
I think many swimmers assume that a TI practice is just drilling at a slow pace. My approach is almost always to swim a set with a discipline and at a rate that challanges me. (unless of course its a recovery or warm up set) If a given set feels too easy, I can adjust in a number of ways: reduce spl, change breathing pattern, extend streamlines. Many of my team mates would only consider dropping the interval.
Before I began masters swimming I participated in several martial arts and yoga. (still do yoga) These activities helped instill in me a desire to seek quality in movement at all levels of intensity. TI swimming satisfies that for me.
Dave,
I am so happy that you have found the swimming method that suits you. I never even thought of TI as a drilling or ez swimming feat. Skillful swimming and conditioning do go hand-in-hand and maybe those gals that came down to our triathlon here just did not spend enough time on sets and intensity. They seemed to be under the impression that stroke alone would take care of the speed and we all know that is not true.
I have a friend here who was a poor swimmer and she is now a bit above average in both technique and speed. She has recently added Yoga and is finding that it helps her swimming tremendously. And once again, I am getting advice and will heed it. I will see if Yoga can help me with overall body balance, strength, and not using more oxygen. I'm game for new ideas.
It is never too late to learn nor try something new to benefit these bodies we were given.
And I do believe that a person is as good of a swimmer as what they give to the training.
There is no easy way to perform to the best of our abilities; it takes commitment and work. I lost that for awhile, but I have regained it again. And I absolutely love hearing from other swimmers here and what they are doing to better themselves.
Donna
Terry,
I am really glad you came back to offer an explanation to the words that may have bothered some people. People are complex and those of us who believe in something deeply, can become very animated and defensive. I, in no way, am attacking the method of TI swimming because I hear too many wonderful things about it. I may question this or that, but it does not mean I am against it. What I stand for is this: swimming. Period.
I know you find it a stretch to believe my "story" about the arrogance of this group of women TI swimmers, but arrogance is in a lot of people, TI or not. What I reported was very true. Many times, woman can be very petty. Some can view a person's looks vs what they truly stand for. But this particular group of women needed a class in charm. It was missing. They thought because they had been swimming TI, that they were going to fare well and they just didn't; not last year anyway. It worried me that they may have been sold a set of goods without putting in the effort. I think this is a good thing; learning humility is a part of participating in a sport. Their disappointment with their performances truly made me sad because I have been there; you know, high expectations and not being able to deliver. More times than not.
And I didn't change the thread, I was relaying a story that I felt important in that people need to train hard as well as learn stroke development. And I was a tad worried that it was possible that many TI coaches were selling TI as a stroke development without the work of yardage. And many, many people are succeeding with TI's methods and I won't argue with that. There are many avenues to get us in a place of greatness.
You are a fine man and have helped many. You have spent your life in the swimming world, as I have, so we really are on the same page here. Any criticism needs to be taken as constructive criticism, please.
Donna
I think many swimmers assume that a TI practice is just drilling at a slow pace.
I think people make this fairly reasonable assumption because that's the typical pitch. What exactly is a "TI workout anyway?" I don't think I've heard of one. Are "TI workouts" given in the new book?
I though that TI was expressly called a revolutionary "mindset" or "philosophy" that incorporated drills, whole body swimming, stroke mechanics and discouraged kicking and use of swim aids/devices. Isn't "TI" distinct from other "swimming," i.e., doing a tough workout and thinking critically about technique because that's just part of swimming? If it's not distinct, why does it have that label? :dunno:
I think people make this fairly reasonable assumption because that's the typical pitch. What exactly is a "TI workout anyway?" I don't think I've heard of one. QUOTE]
I have posted several sets that I have done with my masters team (not written by a TI coach) in this thread and others to illustrate how I use TI to make my practices more challanging and rewarding. Post your favorite workout and I will be happy to note how I would approach it.
Not at all. I've been been well above ideal weight for a significant portion of my adult athletic life. Yet I never became a magnet for the kind of belittling attention Donna has several times reported -- most recently from a claque of "TI girls" she reports meeting at a triathlon. Her report of being treated this way -- and by a group somehow easily identifiable as "TI swimmers" -- strains credulity. At least for me.
I had to take my daughter to see "Mean Girls." It does not seem all that unlikely to me that there are some "Queen Bees," TI Bees or regular Bees, "belittling" others. I think there might be an Alpha male on this forum doing the same thing when his swimming ideas are not embraced with great gusto. I would say there are no words to describe how implicitly insulting your prior post was, but I'd likely be told that I had never learned them. You just shoulda hit the delete button on that one.
Are there any other swimming theories? Otherwise, I'm going back to multi-sporting.
we did a set tonight:
3 x 300 descend on 4:30 (breathe every 3 on the first, 2 right/2 left on the second and 3 right/3 left on the third)
200 recovery
3 x 300 descend on 4:30 (13 spl on the first, 14 spl on the second, 15 spl on the third)
200 recovery
1000 negative split (for time using any combination of breathing pattern and stroke count to facilitate the neg split)
the more data available: the better!
I'm a distance kind of guy so I like this one best of the couple I saw posted. I'm not sure what my personal "favorite" workout is off the top of my head. (Probably that nice 10K I'm going to run tomorrow morning before work.) I don't think I'm as fast as you, so that freestyle set would be tough for me. But, I'm confused. are you swimming with a non-TI coach or a TI coach? Doing a non-TI workout with TI discipline? Isn't that the same thing as swimming hard and thinking about technique?
I'm a distance kind of guy so I like this one best of the couple I saw posted. I'm not sure what my personal "favorite" workout is off the top of my head. (Probably that nice 10K I'm going to run tomorrow morning before work.) I don't think I'm as fast as you, so that freestyle set would be tough for me. But, I'm confused. are you swimming with a non-TI coach or a TI coach? Doing a non-TI workout with TI discipline? Isn't that the same thing as swimming hard and thinking about technique?
Funny you should pick that one. Coach was absent that day I wrote that one.
The idea of this set was to explore a couple of different ways to descend a 300, and then apply it to a 1000 fast (negative split).
The first set of 300's was to descend by changing the breathing pattern (adding air). The second set was to descend by adding strokes.
My non-TI team mates, found the breathing patterns too confusing and so descended without that added discipline. As for the stroke count, one team mate remarked that he never counts strokes and has always relied on the coach to tell him when his stroke was getting shabby and needed to tighten it up.
To prepare an age group swimmer for a 1650 last year we did a similar set:
3x 600 descend on 12spl (change breathing pattern to descend)
200 easy *** stroke (he's a breaststroker)
3x 600 descend on 13spl (change breathing pattern to descend)
etc etc for a total of 12 600's
each set had to descend yet they got easier as the stroke count relaxed.
I swam this set with him sans the *** stroke.
Geez, Dave, this sounds like it could be brutal. Can you post some more TI workouts that you have experienced; say one or two that your brain and body got to experience but wished it didn't?
Donna
Funny you should pick that one. Coach was absent that day I wrote that one. 3x 600 descend on 12spl (change breathing pattern to descend)
200 easy *** stroke (he's a breaststroker)
3x 600 descend on 13spl (change breathing pattern to descend)
etc etc for a total of 12 600's
each set had to descend yet they got easier as the stroke count relaxed.
I swam this set with him sans the *** stroke.
Dave:
I swim alone like many tris. But if I didn't, I'd want you for my coach. Awesome workouts! Although I have to admit I'm not good at stroke counting... I don't do breaststroke either...
To add a note of levity, please go to www.boreme.com and type in "the hoff man of many talents" in the search engine. That's me, swimming in the ocean on top of the water. :D
