I am interested in knowing what swimming theory you use and why you use it. I hear much about Total Immersion and not just from this forum. I hear much about swimming high on the water slightly looking forward, and I hear much about people developing their own swimming theory best suited for them but using guidelines that help them maintain a technical stroke.
Given all these different theories, it is no wonder that swimmers new to the sport are confused as to whom to listen to.
I borrowed the TI book from a friend a year or so ago, and found several things I agreed with, but more that I didn’t. I am not close-minded, I just cannot find a reason to swim so low in the water with the head looking down. The rolling of the shoulders really concerned me and the fact that so much of the body is low-parallel to the water, this has to increase drag, especially on the shoulders. One thing I will say is most people who swim using TI have beautiful strokes. But, and there is a but, they just don’t swim fast. Maybe I have just been so isolated here on this island that I have not heard of any, but are there any Olympians using TI? Or, will the young-uns using it be our next generation?
There is a USMS club in Fort Worth who advocated TI. Sadly, now they are deconstructing all those methods because no matter what the workout and intensity, their swimmers’ speeds could never develop. I get to speak to many triathlete swimmers here every March. The Elite (professional) swimmers swim high on top of the water looking forward and they use hip rotation, not shoulder rolling. Many of the age-groupers in this event just don’t understand why they are not swimming faster using TI. Now, we all know that most of the triathletes who were swimmers first, and runners and bikers second, always fare better in the swim portion.
I have said this before and I will say it again, there is more than one way to swim. I swim higher on top of the water looking forward, about a yard or two and use hip rotation. The reason for this is picture a person throwing a rock that skims the lake. The rock is flying on top of the water and not in it, so it moves much faster until its momentum ceases. Now, I know people are not rocks, but the principle is founded. Swimming on top of the water generates power and the swimmer can truly feel it. I swim slightly “planed” outward and upward and skim over the water, not in it.
Nowadays, because I am older and carry more weight, I swim not quite as high on the water and this has evolved over the last ten years or so. So even though I started out swimming “high” on the water looking forward, my stroke has become my own personal one that suits me very well. I also want to mention that I am referring to only freestyle here even though with all of my backstroke days, I, again, swam rather “planed” upward because I could get more rotation on top of the water rather than “in” the water.
I am not trying to cause a brou-ha-ha. I am just curious about the swimming theories and why people select them. And after swimming with any specific theory, are you happy with it?
Donna
Now, I know you're not slamming lawyers here, right?
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: If so, I want a kiss. I don't care if I'm disbarred. I just doled out some really important advice today on easements amidst all this frolic and banter, and I'm ready to retire (or go swim).
Beth,
I am so okay with this. I have sparred with the best of them when I used to work in the Supreme Court of California for years and years. I've heard it all and seen it all. It takes a lot more than some insults to take me down. I find it all a little humorous to tell you the truth. But I thank you for your concern but I am used to being around big fish in big ponds, not big fish in little ponds.
Thank you for caring. No problem here. And I will continue to add my comments to this thread if I think they could be helpful.
Donna
Fortress, Believe it or not, it wasn't the lawyers. Go a little higher up in position; it was THEM. But, again, I can't kiss :hug: and then tell.Donna
You were already told on. I read it somewhere. Not here. :rofl:
I think we all need to find that method that suits us and our abilities. I've seen triathletes who (incorrectly) use the TI drills and in most cases their swimming has improved very little, if at all. After reading the TI books, I could see where my former coach was applying some of the methods to her own coaching philosophy and during the 2 years she was my coach, I experienced a significant improvement in my swimming. Over the last 3 years, my swimming has improved to the point that I now swim my intervals (100's - 400's) at a pace that is faster than my best times for those distances 3 years ago.
I also believe that if my coach had followed the principles of another method, I probably would have improved in a like manner.
I think the key is in correctly applying the methods and drills, otherwise it's just junk yards.
Wow. I will continue to be a very gracious person in lieu of the degrading adjectives used. And, Terry, you are, indeed, again way off base. I only tell the truth and I am sorry if I struck a nerve. I had hoped that we could agree to disagree. I have never paid anyone back for anything in my life, ever. Let's you and I not discuss swimming theories anymore because so many people have gotten so much from it to this point. Let's let them continue with their experiences, questions, and the gaining of knowledge that this thread has given them. There are so many people here on this forum with great knowledge, not just one or two.
Donna
Okay, let me make sure I have this right. You go to a triathlon each year and there's this catty claque of "TI Mean Girls" - let's call them the Queen Bees of Triathlon. And they single you out as the object of their derision. But you pay them back by beating them, allowing you to later "feel sorry for them."
Is this an experience that other clydesdale and athena or "mature" athletes are familiar with or am I off base in thinking it one of the less likely tales I've ever heard?
Are you actually making fun of clydesdales and mature swimmers?! Should have hit the delete button on this one, that's for sure. Geez, quite a day on the forum. I'm glad Donna is gracious. Not so sure I could have been ....
Beth,
I am so okay with this. I have sparred with the best of them when I used to work in the Supreme Court of California for years and years. I've heard it all and seen it all. It takes a lot more than some insults to take me down. I find it all a little humorous to tell you the truth. But I thank you for your concern but I am used to being around big fish in big ponds, not big fish in little ponds.
Thank you for caring. No problem here. And I will continue to add my comments to this thread if I think they could be helpful.
Donna
Fortress,
Believe it or not, it wasn't the lawyers. Go a little higher up in position; it was THEM. But, again, I can't kiss :hug: and then tell.
Donna
Neither comment was germane in any way to the topic of the thread.
In the memorial words of Buford T. Justus...."The Germans aint got nothing to do with this!" ......Sorry...I couldn't resist! I love that line in Smokey and the Bandit....now back to your regularly scheduled post. :rofl:
Did I mention something in another thread about an unfortunate epidemic of shoulder injury among swimmers who train the conventional way?
:dedhorse: Oh no.....not again.
By the way, this morning while I was swimming that practice with several other TI coaches, a college team was in the adjacent five lanes. Four of the lanes were swimming, one was kicking with fins. I asked them why they had been sentenced to kicking. They replied "We're the injury lane."20% of the team in an "injury lane."
Did I mention something in another thread about an unfortunate epidemic of shoulder injury among swimmers who train the conventional way?
Now, why did you have to go and do that?! I'm quite sure that I (and perhaps many others here) are being "baited" by that "BTW" comment in the post above. I read earlier that "baiting" or thinly disguised personal insults were uncivil. It somehow seems unfair that you always get the last word or get away with incivility. See, e.g., supra, Clydesdale insult.
Yes, you are quite right, you did mention a little something about that "unfortunate epidemic." :blah: :blah: I thought we had finished that discussion for just a little while with a bunch of :smooch: :smooch: :smooch: . (I know I kissed a doctor and you said all was "sweetness and light.") I thought we were going to argue about baseball. Mets suck.
As I recall, you finally admitted that technique was a "mitigating" factor, something like it "can mitigate other causative factors better than anything else you can do." (My memory of your quote from the "shoulder clicking" thread; I haven't "looked it up." It's ingrained in my shoulder.) So we had reduced technique, at least for middle agers as I later found out, from "mainly" to a "primary causative factor" to "mitigating" factor. It's just a factor or mitigating factor. No more. No less. Possible identified factors: volume, overuse, aging, anatomy, poor technique, fly, paddles, etc. I somehow don't think GoodSmith's shoulder injury is due primarily to technique as Geek wrly observed elsewhere.
Then, you told Some Guy on that "shoulder problems" thread that elite youth/college swimmers -- as opposed to us middle age dessicated flyers -- had problems because of great big paddles, volume training, etc. So again, you're on record as crediting other factors for shoulder issues. I agree that endurance training may be overrated for some. But I don't think Michael Phelps or any decent college swimmer is minimizing "volume" to swim a 400 IM. I do think many of us should throw out giant paddles, but I don't want to offend KNelson because I know he likes them. I'm sure others do too.
I'm generally an unconventional person and willing to listen to many swimming theories, which is why I logged on to this thread, but the sport of belittling everyone's shoulder woes is really getting on my nerves. Shoulder injuries are not due mainly or solely or primarily to that hated stuff known as "conventional swimming technique." In fact, I recently spoke to several swimmers who said their shoulders were better using non-TI techniques in free. Can't you give it up? :dedhorse: :dedhorse: :dedhorse: :dedhorse: :dedhorse:
P.S. Kicking is NOT a "sentence." Try sprinting without it. Oh, yes, you're not a sprinter. But some of us are.
