Are shoulder injuries caused solely by improper stroke mechanics? Can we avoid all pain using perfect technique? Can we throw away the ice pack forever? Or can shoulder pain be caused by other factors as well? Vote if you have an opinion.
So those of you doing preventative maintenance routines on your shoulders, what do those routines look like? Are they weighlifting sets or PT type exercises or both?
Or perhaps just that the sets so tired out some of the stabilizing muscles that they couldn't subsequently do their job properly.
Very good point. From what I have learned about shoulders with stability problems, those rotator cuff muscles are extremely important to keeping that joint healthy! If those muscles are fatigued, they can not hold a hypermobile shoulder in the right position.
To put it in my own words, one has to consider not only a swimmer's technique as exemplified when swimming a 25 when well rested, there is also the technique they are swimming the final 25 of the last 200 in a 10x200 set! Ok, not many of us do such sets but I have seen a few people talk about having done them, and more importantly many of us will suffer deterioration of technique even on much more modest sets. So, a defensible hypothesis would be that some of the people who find butterfly is hard on their shoulders even though they have good technique are actually suffering from training butterfly beyond the point where they could maintain their good form.
Leslie: in your case I seem to recollect you commenting that your shoulder problems occurred after doing major fly sets, I think you may have even refered to overdoing them? So, assuming that you are correct that your technique is sound perhaps a good question is whether you did some sets that pushed beyond what you could maintain strict technique on? Or perhaps just that the sets so tired out some of the stabilizing muscles that they couldn't subsequently do their job properly.
I have not done 10 x 200 fly sets since youth. About a month ago, I swam some long IMs and race pace fly with fins. I felt like I was having a nice "power" set and not straining much. But I wouldn't swear that my technique didn't break down on that or other occasions. I think it's just as likely, as you said, that I "tired out the stabilizing muscles."
I think Terry has introduced an expansion of the technique issue, and I think it would be unfortunate if it were overlooked due to the recent volume of posts..
Agreed. But which "expansion" were you referring to?
You're perfectly welcome to make that statement -- and you have. You'd probably get wide agreement. I wouldn't be among those willing to endorse a statement that seems to suggest technique is not pre-eminent among all causes.
I don't understand why you, as a coach, seem to minimize the importance of anatomical factors. It is well-recognized (in the medical literature) that shoulder impingement in many cases results from a muscle imbalance, hence the emphasis on strengthening the rotator cuff and stabilizing the scapula. The shoulder joint, unlike the hip, is not a "ball in socket"; rather, the head of the humerus is suspended by surrounding muscles and ligaments. As we age, muscles weaken, ligaments dessicate, joint spaces narrow--independent of our technique. Consequently, I believe all Masters swimmers (injured or not) should adhere to a home exercise program that maintains the health of the shoulder joint and allows them to keep swimming (with proper technique, of course).
I think Terry has introduced an expansion of the technique issue, and I think it would be unfortunate if it were overlooked due to the recent volume of posts.
To put it in my own words, one has to consider not only a swimmer's technique as exemplified when swimming a 25 when well rested, there is also the technique they are swimming the final 25 of the last 200 in a 10x200 set! Ok, not many of us do such sets but I have seen a few people talk about having done them, and more importantly many of us will suffer deterioration of technique even on much more modest sets. So, a defensible hypothesis would be that some of the people who find butterfly is hard on their shoulders even though they have good technique are actually suffering from training butterfly beyond the point where they could maintain their good form.
Craig also made some good points about the effect of age on shoulders. Which leads me to wonder whether it is really productive to debate the ranking of causes, in the end one has to address the specific case of the swimmer in question, and you should really look at all the common problems and their solutions to see if they apply.
Leslie: in your case I seem to recollect you commenting that your shoulder problems occurred after doing major fly sets, I think you may have even refered to overdoing them? So, assuming that you are correct that your technique is sound perhaps a good question is whether you did some sets that pushed beyond what you could maintain strict technique on? Or perhaps just that the sets so tired out some of the stabilizing muscles that they couldn't subsequently do their job properly.
I will point out one thing and then shut up: it is possible to swim butterfly very fast and repeat with poor technique physiologically. Not at the Crocker level. Not at the Phelps level. But at the stubborn, strong Masters level? Yes!But not without paying a long-term price...
