Running. Does it help your swimming or is it an interesting diversion? A lot of people here seem to cross train with running. (Some are obviously triathletes). USS teams now have their swimmers running. But does running really help swimming?
For me, I'm not so sure. I think it helps a bit on the cardio side and may build leg strength. I do it to tighten everything up, because I like being outside and it gives my shoulders a break. But I'm not sure I wouldn't be better off with more pool time if my body could take it.
The muscles you use in running are not the same ones that you use in swimming. That is why the benefit isn't there. You can improve over all fitness, and maybe lung capacity. However there is no direct correlation with improved swimming ability. You are much better off getting to the pool more. At least that is the research I've seen.
As someone else said, running may help with weight loss which may result in faster times, or it may result in more muscle which helps to burn more calories and makes your workouts more efficient.
The logic that running will help you in the pool makes no sense to me though ...
Not trying to rude or anything I just don't follow the logic. And I used to be a hardcore runner ...
Also, unless you work swimming specific muscles and their counter muscles (ie - upper back to balance the shoulders) then weight lifting can be pointless, too.
Runners use their quadriceps and hamstrings as do swimmers. It would seem to me that running would increase the production of ATP which would benefit you in the pool. Same goes for cycling, I think the same muscle groups are used in that sport as well. I have seen many a triathlete jump into the pool with piss poor form but have endurance like nobodies business. The most likely explanation is that their ability to produce ATP has been increased from the running and cycling they do.
Yes, it is hamstrings and quads but I don't think it works like that. Those are the muscle groups, but not the individual muscles.
I think the bottom line is getting into the pool is more effective.
Lisa, you are talking about club days when you swam a lot more than we do in masters. I think for masters swimmers the benefit will be found in more pool workouts. How many track stars are getting into the pool to swim a few times a week?
SCY freestyler:
What are we using our hamstrings for in swimming besides breaststroke, which is an evil thing that I don't do? I guess there's starts and turns. Anything else?
I do start to feel my quads and hammies in fly ... and back ... they are used, but I don't think the individual muscles are the same ... I'm not an expert on this at all just going off of what I have read ... my the quads and hams are definitely used in the kick ...
EDITED TO ADD: IF you believe Gary Hall Jr. then boxing is the best cross training activity. This makes sense to me because you use your whole body. You rotate from your core to engage everything. I see the transfer for this, but not for running.
who knew this would turn into a debate?
I know masters swimmers who swim just as much as I did/do in my current "club days". We don't see track stars getting into the pool to swim a few times a week because they don't use their arms like we do. We use our legs like they do. Strong legs and strong kicks are what has helped me have such a succesfull underwater kick, fast turns and strong breastroke pullouts. ANY swimmer (not just club swimmers) can benefit from strenghtening of muscles. Weak swimmers are not fast swimmers. I would hope to think masters swimmers would want to get faster and not get stuck in a rut or not be strong enough to complete a 500 or a mile or a 3000 for time.
just my two cents.
What I am getting at is just that I don't think physiologically it has benefits. I've read a few studies on this that have brought me to that belief. This isn't to say that I haven't run as cross training.
Endurance is a funny thing. When I first started swimming masters I was in phenomenal running shape. I was training for a marathon at the time, and had to stop due to injury. I died for the first month (or two) in practice because I wasn't in swimming shape. Being in swimming shape and being in running shape are so different. Now I am in great swimming shape and tried to run a measly 2 miles the other day and was hurting. I could swim a 3000 or more for time no problem. I would hate every last second of it, but I could do it. I could probably swim farther than I could run at this point.
If a masters swimmer can't finish a 500 they answer isn't running more it's more endurance work.
Now, I am also a sprinter as I know Fortress/Leslie/Alison is so I wonder if that is an issue.
Lisa, what are your events?
I still think the best way to get a better kick and a stronger underwater kick is by getting in the water and kicking and going to weight room and lifting, not running.
In Michael Phelps' new book, his coach says that they tried to add a three mile run to his pre-Olympic training regimen, but dropped it quickly because his knees/back hurt and it produced little return. I think he was in his late teens when he started weight lifting.
Here's another quote from a great new book:
Bill Bowerman: "When they add hills to a track, I'll have my athletes run hills in practice." :D
And P.S. I can't resist. I am perfectly happy cross training with fins too from time to time. I find it does wonders for my SDKs and my backstroke starts are no longer in the neanderthal stage. Fins also builds leg strength, ankle strength and ankle flexibility. I know runners who swim for cross training when injured or resting and they like to use fins for that reason.
You might not be aware of the benefits while you are performing these activities but surely they are helping your swimming in some way, no? Rowing might be helping your rotator cuff muscles. Cycling will strengthen your legs. The fresh air and scenery will clear your mind.
I agree with scyfreestlyer and aquageek! :applaud: How can anyone say that running/cross training doesn't help? The impact that cross training has on your muscles is greatly noticeable. Why do coaches incorporate running into the swimming program? Obviously, they know from experience that it helps - they know there are great benefits to the swimmer's muscles and mind.
Cross training makes your legs stronger. Stronger legs produce better legs, stronger underwater dolphin kicks, agility, muscle endurance, and that in turn produces greater confidence in the swimmer. Good things all around.
Terry - do you think weight lifting doesn't impact a swimmer's performance?
But I don't do them with any sense that they directly impact my swim performance. That happens entirely in the water.
Terry - are you saying that there is nothing a swimmer can do out of the water to improve their swimming? Are all those years of dryland training of abs, medicine balls, weights, running, stadiums, push ups, etc - all of that was unncessary? It didn't help me to be a better swimmer? Or perhaps did it give me that last push to get me over any plateaus?
I agree with Terry (that is not a typo). Maglischo argues that VO2max is sport-specific;
Does Maglischo think that mitochondria are capable of understanding what sport is being played? Does he think that atp production shuts down when a swimmer runs or when a runner swims? I would have to read the article/chapter I guess but it sounds like his theory is a bit of a reach.
Runners use their quadriceps and hamstrings as do swimmers. It would seem to me that running would increase the production of ATP which would benefit you in the pool. Same goes for cycling, I think the same muscle groups are used in that sport as well. I have seen many a triathlete jump into the pool with piss poor form but have endurance like nobodies business. The most likely explanation is that their ability to produce ATP has been increased from the running and cycling they do.
