Does cross-training with running help swimming?

SCY freestyler: What are we using our hamstrings for in swimming besides breaststroke, which is an evil thing that I don't do? I guess there's starts and turns. Anything else? SwimmerLisa; Now, I do agree with you that core strengthening activities help your swimming. I think they've helped me, at least. Your quadriceps propel your leg downward in a freestyle kick and the hamstring brings it back up to neutral position. I don't recall the term right now but muscles work in conjunction with each other at joints such as the hip since a muscle can only provide movement in one direction.

Wow. Everyone is all over the map on this one. I run a lot. That's mostly what I did during my 24 year hiatus from swimming until I gave myself a nasty stress fracture. I still run now, just shorter distances and less often. But I don't think it helps my swimming one little bit. Sorry Geek and SCY freestyler. Usually if I run before I swim later that night, I get cramps in swimming. And I never huff and puff when I run so I don't think it helps my cardio that much. My legs give out before my lungs. But will I stop running and do endless drills in the pool? No way, and I like drills. I run because I think it increases my fitness generally. I run because I like to be outside. I run so that the rest of my family won't make fun of me for being a whimp. I run so that I can do aquathons or a 5K with my kids/husband. I run because it burns way more calories than swimming and it generally tightens everything up whereas swimming doesn't do much for flabbiness. I'm sure running has the benefit of strengthening my legs, but I think I could get that from weight lifting in lieu of running. But if you think running is helping your swimming, keep doing it. It's great fun. (Sorry Allen). Perhaps this is because you are using the same muscles in swimming that you used in running. After running they are already fatigued and a cramp is to be expected I would think. Maybe not though. Also, your legs giving out is a sign that you have exceeded their ATP production level...actually the ability of mitochondria to produce ATP fast enough for you. I think you have moved into the fermentation cycle which is when your muscles will "fail". Where is Gull? He knows all of this physiological/biological stuff like the back of his hand.

Lisa, you are talking about club days when you swam a lot more than we do in masters. I think for masters swimmers the benefit will be found in more pool workouts. How many track stars are getting into the pool to swim a few times a week? who knew this would turn into a debate? I know masters swimmers who swim just as much as I did/do in my current "club days". We don't see track stars getting into the pool to swim a few times a week because they don't use their arms like we do. We use our legs like they do. Strong legs and strong kicks are what has helped me have such a succesfull underwater kick, fast turns and strong breastroke pullouts. ANY swimmer (not just club swimmers) can benefit from strenghtening of muscles. Weak swimmers are not fast swimmers. I would hope to think masters swimmers would want to get faster and not get stuck in a rut or not be strong enough to complete a 500 or a mile or a 3000 for time. just my two cents.

Lisa, what are your events? I still think the best way to get a better kick and a stronger underwater kick is by getting in the water and kicking and going to weight room and lifting, not running. my events are 100/200 back....100 fly....100/200 IM. I rely heavily on my underwater work, which in turn leads to endurance so i can survive the whole event after so much underwater fly. I kick a lot during practice, but for me, and this is me personally, that extra work by running or in the weight room has helped. that's just me and my experience. to each his - or her - own. :cool:

You spoiled swimmers, all those pools out there lots of space to train. We had very large time constrates as to pool availability. Three lanes 1.5 hours, club with 200= swimmers open swimming in the other 4 lanes. Mon 3 lanes, Tues pool closed for wrestling matches, Wed 3 lanes, Thurs 3 lanes, Friday Lesson nite no training, Sat race out of town. Sunday no training and this was until I was 23 years of age. We had to do the cross training or you would never be fit. Now I ride my bike and very little swimming, can't run anymore a little walking. When I head south I will swim lots see you all at the Canadian Master Races in May.

Sorry to repeat an old storey My brother Thurlow and I used to go to the Municipal Swimming Pool to train. The pool was a little over two and a half miles from our house. Thurlow and I would get street car fare from our mother to get us to and from the pool. When we would get to the street car stop, we put the cash in our pockets and would wait for the street car to load up. As soon as it started to move, we would start to run, and kept going for fifteen blocks. We had a pact...If we beat the street car to Sherman Ave. we could walk the next seven blocks to the pool. But, if the street car beat us to Sherman, we had to run all the rest of the way to the pool. As it turned out, we did a lot of running. The reward... great conditioning and the french fries or milkshakes that we bought with the street car money which was burning a hole in our pockets. When Thurlow and I were a little older we would pack a lunch, ride our bikes from the city of Hamilton Ontario to Freelton stone quarry - a 12 mile ride each way. In the summer we would leave home in the morning and stay at the quarry all day. We did this two or three times a week. The quarry was filled with water, we called it Emerald lake. It was surrounded by limestone cliffs. We would play tag, running all over the place, diving off the 25 to 35 ft. cliffs, and racing each other across the lake. After the day at Emerald lake was over, we headed home. We had never heard of cross training but I think this was CROSS TRAINING.

I promise you, the most valuable thing you do for your underwater work is to practice every turn/pushoff/breakout like it was for an Olympic medal. No amount of kicking sets or weight room work will touch this for creating the adaptations that help you win the walls in races. Win every wall in training and you'll win them in races. Which, I hope you understand, is not an argument against weight training.Good advice Terry but when the closest pool is 150 miles away. Like I had when I raced the marathon circuit what are we to do. I did the wall pulleys in the closet thing.

I promise you, the most valuable thing you do for your underwater work is to practice every turn/pushoff/breakout like it was for an Olympic medal. . Of course. All I was trying to say is that the added strength and agility i gain from the dryland training HELPS. :dedhorse: :dedhorse: the defense rests.

my events are 100/200 back....100 fly....100/200 IM. I rely heavily on my underwater work, which in turn leads to endurance so i can survive the whole event after so much underwater fly. I kick a lot during practice, but for me, and this is me personally, that extra work by running or in the weight room has helped. that's just me and my experience. to each his - or her - own. :cool: Lisa, to each his or her own indeed! I'm glad it has worked for you personally. My point simply is that I think working on your underwater kick is going garner more benefits than running. Basically, that running is not a subsitute for swimming. I do think running helps with overall fitness, but I am not sure if has physiological gains for swimming. All that being said, I talked to one of the Physical Therapists I work with about this and he said that it would help with cardiovascular fitness, but that any swimming gains need to be made in the pool because it is too sport specific. He also said swimming is a better cardio workout because of the use arms! I would run as cross training simply to increase fitness levels if I could but my back can't handle it ...

-you can rest your swimming muscles and still get a great cardio work-out. (active recovery) -it benefits one's leg strength... which is important for pushing off of the walls and having a good start. -it offsets the unwanted calories associated with beer drinking and pie eating. (Tug boat shaped bodies are bad for swimming.) -getting in a 45-60 minute run doesn't require a commute to the pool. I am sure there are more....