Why is it that Masters level swimmers who participate in USS sanctioned meets under a separate USS registration can't have their times automatically qualify for USMS rankings and USMS National records? What is the reason for this separation? The rules with USMS and USS seem parallel enough to allow USS swims to qualify under USMS ranking and records. Do we care if elite older swimmers in their 30's (say Gary Hall Jr.) effectively end up owning the USMS national record by default? Is USMS afraid of merging to closely with USS? Why wouldn't USMS want to recognize the true best performance by and old man/women in the pool regardless of whether their card said USS or USMS on it?
John Smith
You're a better man (er, swimmer) than me, Paul. I'm sticking to masters meets. I go to enough of my kids' meets and sometimes I like to (egads!) cross-train, which takes up time. I get plenty of competition from the younger swimmers here who sometimes blow my doors off. (But I will not fess up to holes in my fastskin. Not yet anyway.)
I agree with promoting and endorsing the sport 100%. It's amazing to see what people are capable of as they age. I'm not sure most high school and college swimmers actually know what USMS is unless they have a parent that competes. And, as I said before, 99.9% of the world doesn't care about USMS times or even know USMS exists. That's too bad. If you guys kick butt at some of these USS meets that will help or inspire kids to respect and emulate us old guys.
Maybe carried to a logical extreme, your argument is right and Olympians should be able to claim USMS records because what you're really after is a true list of the best times performed by anyone in any meet in that age bracket. Part of me is just worried that the vast majority of masters swimmers, who aren't as talented and willing to get their butts whupped in USS meets, might find that purism disheartening. They might just want USS-only Olympians to stay in their own USS venue so that they can have some fun at their own masters meets swimming against super talented masters swimmers or those who are just trying to stay fit and have fun competing.
Sadly the vast majority of high school/college swimmers out there see USMS as nothing more than a "fitness organization"...they really don't take us seriouslly when it comes to offering "real" compeitition.
Finally, we agree. I'm completely with you on this one. Of course, those that don't bother learning about USMS only think of us as a competition league.
We should do more to promote competition and less promotion of noodling!
Geek:
I hear all this talk of "noodling" on this website. Please define. Is it silly rambling or something more insidious?
Paul:
I dunno. Maybe you're right. Maybe records are only meaningful if they are based on actual data irrespective of what paperwork a swimmer has filled out. I guess it would be disingenuous for a 27 year old masters swimmer to announce that he was "Top 10 in the Nation" if there were 30 other USS guys between 25-29 who could whip him.
Maybe we should categorize records differently. Maybe it should be based on training. Who swims 2x a week, who trains 5x, who trains around the clock with a college team and is a professional masters swimmer, etc. Or, for those busting through their fastskins, we could have Athena and Clydesdale divisions like they do in triathlons. Then, the playing field would be equalized for beer drinkers and broken shoulder swimmers. :drink:
Kirk,
That's the way I interpret Leo's comments as well. Gary was registered to swim at the FINA World Masters and thus, must have been a registered USMS member. However, I'm not sure what to make of this turning in of times to the LMSC. I think Gary was registered as The Race Club. Is this an LMSC or does he have to call some random LMSC in Florida and say hey fellas, I just broke the dang world record for the 50 free. Could ya help a brother out, call Leo and get it posted for me? That seems a little silly. Leo can simply go to the results section of the Pan Pacs on line and read the results himself and give Gary the new world record. Gary then becomes the World's Fastest Master's Swimmer ever, which is kind of funny considering the heated discussions about him on another thread.
Leo,
The question wasn't whether a competitor that is currently registered with USMS who swims in a USS meet can qualify for rankings and records in USMS. The question was, why can't a competitor that is registered in USS and swims in a USS meet automatically qualify for rankings and records in USMS?
John Smith
Leo,
If you are correct, then you make it sound more like a mere right for a dues paying club member who excelled than a true or real national record or ranking for a particular age group.
I'm realy not seeing any legitimate reason why older USS swimmers or master swimmers that cross over and register with USS shouldn't be able to swim in USS meets and submit times that are eligible for USMS records or rankings.
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Racer X,
I'm not buying your assumption that 25-35 year olds won't bother showing to USMS meets if they can swim USS and qualify for records and rankings in USS meets. Even if they did, there aren't that many elite cross over people as a percentage of the total dues paying USMS members to make a dent in the budget.
John Smith
This is an interesting series of questions. What do other organizations do, say running associations? Doesn't make much sense to me either but maybe there's some sort of logical explanation.
