open/closed handed freestyle??

Are we moving the hand through the water or are we using newtons third law? Are we actuaully pressing against that imaginary wall that is actually a wall of water?

Thank you all. furthermore, will open-handed also reduce 'bubble' in entry and lead you to solid water??

Originally posted by LindsayNB It isn't an either/or situation Right. The correct answer is it's both. Our arms apply a force against the water and that forces accelerates us forward. The water always resists the force we apply against it.

Originally posted by Paul Smith Oh Contrar Mr. Smith..... I told you to stop dropping your thumbs to almost 90 degrees at hand entry.....a poor/lazy habit you picked up training on your own the last couple of years with opversize paddles and without my being around to yell to you......any chance that may play a part with your should problem thats emerged???!! Also.......I told you to keep your hand "relaxed" but to pull your thumb in rather than having it positioned like part of a big "L" as in LOSER!! And by the way......seems to have helped a bit considering your relay splits at worlds wouldn't you say.....so YOU pay up old man! PS: next year we're going to get you out of that late 70's, googles out breakout on starts/turns that you seem to take pleasure in! I've noticed in underwater video's of Popov swimming freestyle that he positions his thumb out at a 90 degrees upon hand entry. I Tend to do this as well and I never thought this was a bad thing. For me it seems easier to maintain a relaxed feeling in my hands that way. I do use the TYR catalyst paddles, so that might be why its more comfortable to swim with my thumb out. Kevin

Originally posted by LindsayNB I wouldn't dream of arguing with A Fish. His team's diving coach--Hugo Splash--wasn't quite as effective :)

George and Paul, as I said in my post there is feel and there is physics. The stroke should feel like you are grabbing something solid and pulling yourself past it, and the better your technique the closer you will come to that, it may even be that how you should swim is exactly how you would swim if it were possible to push on a fluid as if it were a solid. BUT, it is basic physics that you can't push against a fluid without the fluid moving in the direction you are pushing. Again, it is very possible that it is better to concentrate on the feel and forget about the physics. Rather than debate with me debate directly with the water: go to the pool and try to push against it without having it move.

Originally posted by LindsayNB George and Paul, as I said in my post there is feel and there is physics. The stroke should feel like you are grabbing something solid and pulling yourself past it, and the better your technique the closer you will come to that, it may even be that how you should swim is exactly how you would swim if it were possible to push on a fluid as if it were a solid. BUT, it is basic physics that you can't push against a fluid without the fluid moving in the direction you are pushing. Again, it is very possible that it is better to concentrate on the feel and forget about the physics. Rather than debate with me debate directly with the water: go to the pool and try to push against it without having it move. Lindsay, Lindsay, Lindsay, Don't you know that swimming has nothing to do with physics? If you look at very good freestylers or flyers, you will notice that their hand comes out almost exactly where it goes in. This is harder to tell with backstrokers & ***. They are the same though. You do not argue. You only accept. Swimming is the great majic trick and the great deceiver. Also, don't we know from studying plastics, water and air streams that sometimes a substance can be both a solid and a liquid? The water does move but you are constantly moving your hand into still, or stiller water. That is the great deception of swimming. Read the chapter about free stroke in Swimming Faster. (I am once again about to really screw his name) Maglischo tells us this very simply. We don't perceive this while we are moving because we are moving. I think it is to do with relativity and perception. This is why most swimmers swim the "S" in their stroke. Once in high school, I was told by my coach A. Fish, that the free is like pollvaulting: You plant your hand & then vault your body over your hand. I have always had a very difficult time of this until one day doing IMs I realized that while going from back to *** I was planting my hand then vaulting my body over the hand.

And I did the "S" stroke before Concillman wrote the book. However the "S" stroke has had many changes over the years it is very effective.

Originally posted by geochuck And I did the "S" stroke before Concillman wrote the book. However the "S" stroke has had many changes over the years it is very effective. I used Swimming Fastest because i just finished rereading the free section.

Wasn't the team manager's name Ima Drowning?