Controversy...Is it all about winning!

Rich- I think you ought put "the shoe on the other foot"! How would you like to lose relay records to recruited super teams??? I don't think you would like it??? If that becomes the challenge then I will go head to head with you anytime.

Originally posted by A.K. Why doesn't the rest or World's Master Swimmers have the same rules as the USMS? Why haven't they been changed to match USMS? Why haven't USMS rules been changed to match the other FINA Master rules? I'm from Italy. Here, you can only swim for one team in one season. Sometimes, it's VERY DIFFICULT (if you're a good swimmer) to be "released" from your team of origin if you want to switch to another team between seasons, whatever the reason. I'm all for elite relay teams. There will be an elite relay team from Italy in the 120 age group. They have been swimming together on the same team for years. I think it would be fantastic to be able to represent your own country, instead of your team... but that's just my 2 euros!! :cool: PS: I want to compliment Vlad on his written English - perfect! WOW!!

Originally posted by Frank Thompson I will admit that I never heard of the Conglomerate situation in Britan except I have heard of teams in the armed forces forming for championships to compete as a team. It's rife in GB, and it's certainly not confined to USMS and GB either, e.g. in this thread on the UK swimclub forum: www.swimclub.co.uk/.../showthread.php When I was at the European Masters in Millau I swam for a Barnet Copthall men’s medley relay team, all of whom trained with the club. i.e. We were a completely legit club team. Six months earlier the very same team had touched out the GB Police team to win the national championships and set a new British record. In Millau the same four relay swimmers were comprehensively destroyed by teams including ‘Hellas Masters’ (who were basically a combined Swedish team) and ‘Dynamo Kiev’ (who were the former Ukrainian Olympic team). So we can add Sweden and Ukraine to the list of nations that don't seem to have an issue with composite teams / conglomerates.

I can vouch for Beth McGee. It's not her. Beth, this is Kristina, one of the gals you swim with on occasion at SAMS. I've missed swimming with you this summer! I did not realize that your id was so close to what I chose. :) I'll see if I can change it to something a little less similar! Did not mean to embarass you with my post! Please do allow me to take the heat. Anyway, I'm glad the FINA rules are the way they are. I always want to swim against the fastest swimmer or swimmers in relays. I did not know that USS, High School, and NCAA were comparable to eachother much less USMS. USMS is certainly it's own separate body with completely different goals promoting the sport of swimming for it's healthy benefits along with building relationships among other swimmers regardless of where they may live. I learn something new every day and did not know relationship building was limited to your geographical location. Why do you think top age group teams travel across the country (or even outside of it) to join other teams different from themselves in trainings? To get more experiences and benefit from different ideas and training techinques. I can't tell you how many times I've been told one thing by one coach and the complete opposite by another coach - and that's within the same "club." The weath of info we now have is massive compared to what it was in the 70s when I grew up. This issues makes me think of Walmart going overseas to keep prices as low as possible. Why not go outside your state line for the fastest team? It's a global economy and like it or not, we no longer operate in a bubble. Who is to say that swimmers jump ship b/c of their egos? First, so what if that's the case? Clubs have egos too and are not perfect beyond reproach. Not every swimmer has a wonderful "club" experience. I've personally had mixed experiences at different clubs and am happy to have a pool to swim in. Second, there could be many reasons as to why the swimmer jumps ship other than individual ego. It's not as if we've signed a contract with a "club" and are paid by them to swim for the team. We pay the club! Third, it's fun to win. Winning does not happen by chance. When I was on high school, you are right, I was stuck with the team we had and I had to carry the three other slow swimmers. How do you think the fastest swimmer feels? I sure as heck would dare not say! (I will now 'cause it's been many years.) Shouldn't masters have a lot more "leeway" anyway? If not and we're going to be all tied down in crazy rules, then we really need to implement doping/ random drug testing which would be great b/c then I'm pretty sure I'd eliminate half my competition! I still say it's a case of have or have nots, but if you prefer, "wahhh" vs. fast. Always working on not being "wahhh," :p

Originally posted by kokkole PS: I want to compliment Vlad on his written English - perfect! WOW!! Thank you kokkole... I'm putting your username in my buddy list :D

Originally posted by swimgold92 Thank you kokkole... I'm putting your username in my buddy list :D I am honored!!

Originally posted by TheGoodSmith Frank, The relay pyche sheet is out. Take a look at it. It appears Italy has a similar approach to these national team relays. They are seated ahead of Team TYR despite our "whoring" efforts. Hmmmmmmmmmm........... could some other country be trying to assemble the fastest relay possible at Masters World Championships? How awful ........... :-) John Smith Thanks for the tip on the relay psyche sheet. This Italian relay: 160-199 1 DDS "A" DDS Milano 1:47.09 1) Giuseppe, Tiano M38 2) Agostinone, Andrea M37 3) Machesi, Fabio M43 4) Savino, Metello M43 has been together for YEARS (at least 3). They swim on the same team, which is called DDS. They are NOT an elite team which has been put together for the worlds. By the way: Giuseppe Tiano (back) got his bachelor degree at UCLA, and swam on the Bruins team with Tom Jager as a team mate. Metello Savino (free) was at the 1984 Olympics in LA. It's going to be a great relay. I think they're already in LA warming up, or tapering (and shaving) down, rather.... As I already wrote in this topic, in Italy it is NOT allowed to change teams mid-season. Therefore, I can safely say that it is NOT true that "Italy has a similar approach to these national team relays." I sort of wish we did - then we could put Marco Colombo on the team!!! :D

Well, I guess that will shut John up....naww

sorry if I sound like a lawyer or something - I just think it's funner to play when you know the rules, and you've got your facts straight. If y'all want I'll put in a link to the Italian Swimming Federation Masters rules on relays... here you go: !FIN Rules for Masters Relay Teams I translate: "Article 5 - Relays Relays must be made up of 4 athletes from the same team. No athlete may swim for more than one team." The rules also specify that from 1 October 2005 through 30 September 2006 you can be a member of only one team. By the way, the DDS team (from Milan) are REALLY nice and fun people. They put on a good show... Say "CIAO!" when you see them

Frank, The relay pyche sheet is out. Take a look at it. It appears Italy has a similar approach to these national team relays. They are seated ahead of Team TYR despite our "whoring" efforts. Hmmmmmmmmmm........... could some other country be trying to assemble the fastest relay possible at Masters World Championships? How awful ........... :-) John Smith