Elite vs. Fitness

My thought on nationals is that it is pretty cool that pretty much any USMS swimmer can go - and is something I know I mention every time I try to recruit folks to come (or just get into the pool). For all of us who never got the chance to qualify for a national meet as a kid, now, we can go to the national meet whenever we want just because we can. I think that is pretty cool. Now, I do make NQTs, and do quite alright for myself as well. I think it's great that anyone can participate. That is what masters swimming is all about. I've never gone to nationals before. Since I started competing 5 years ago nationals has been on the other side of the country and I couldn't justify the trip to swim just 3 events. This year, for the first time ever, I have qualifying times in 4 events and am close in another 4. Also, nationals is in the west which makes it even better. So I will definitely be there. And I'm looking forward to meeting some of the people from this forum.:banana:

But for right now, I'm the gal in the second lane - too fast for the wall too slow for the middle - working on my technique. I like it when we finally get back to what it's all about! Nice quote, well placed. We're all in the same water. And as Archie Harris used to say,"Keep swimming, you're not out of deep water yet!"

Thanks for refreshing this thread for us "newbies". Where I fit in in master's swimming is a big question for me. I'm swimming on my own now. I started back in the pool in Nov. following surgery and 20 years of inactivity. I never swam competively, just laps for stress relief in college and grad school. Now I swim with more intention. My body's getting older and I need to gain fitness yesterday. I've started by working my way through the 0 to 1650 program (week 4 for me). I regard myself as a serious swimmer at the start of a training program. When I discovered the master's team at my pool, I thought "that's what I'm looking for", understandably after I've got more endurance and speed. When I made interested noises to some master's swimmers I met, I encountered a wall of elitism which turned me off. Big time. Now, I don't know if I'll ever compete. A few months ago I would have said "no way, no how". Now, as I can feel myself swim better, longer and faster, I'm not so sure. I'm addicted to swimming and am competitive by nature. But any team I train with has to have a developmental attitude. This board has been a great source of encouragement. Most posters seem to be accepting of those new to serious swimming. I've learned a great deal reading discussions (haven't had much to add to this point), and seen that there is a place for non-competitors within the organization. That said, I think using language such as "elite" when meaning competitors is off-putting. "Elite" has an undeniable connotation of "better that others", and I hope that's not where the emphasis is. I wish my local team had more of a welcoming attitude. Maybe I talked to the wrong people. I'll certainly try again as I get stronger and faster (I'm stubborn too). But for right now, I'm the gal in the second lane - too fast for the wall too slow for the middle - working on my technique.

my wife and I find that people tend to hang together mostly because they have been in a lane/group for a long time...and often are busy chatting it up....easy to take it as elite or cliquish but I doubt its often the case. Not to mention swimming just doesn't lend itself to socializing during the workout. You're just not going to get the chance to talk to the guy or gal two lanes over unless it's in the locker room after practice. For this reason I think any training group that really thinks of themselves as a "team" needs to have social events outside the pool.

Peter Cruise he is the only swimmer I know who cuises along.

Sometimes, a swimmer with "attitude" only has that attitude because they are big fish in a little pond. Humility is usually learned when they have to swim with big fish in a big pond. I'm just happy being a fish.

Barb......first off anyone in their 20's hasn't even really paid taxes yet....so I wouldn't put much faith in their self importance.....in fact, check out some of the times that the womens 40-44 & 45-49 women are doing, then ask these 20ish gals if they'd make top 10......in either of those age groups.....my guess is the peacocks may pull their feathers in a bit....:thhbbb: Its MASTERS!!

Barb......first off anyone in their 20's hasn't even really paid taxes yet....so I wouldn't put much faith in their self importance.....in fact, check out some of the times that the womens 40-44 & 45-49 women are doing, then ask these 20ish gals if they'd make top 10......in either of those age groups.....my guess is the peacocks may pull their feathers in a bit....:thhbbb: Its MASTERS!! Barb: As one of those old 45 year olds, I agree with Paul. They have barely started living. Wait until they launch careers, buy homes, possibly have children, juggle numerous responsibilities, etc. Then they'll see that it isn't all that easy getting your 4000 yards in like clockwork. It can be hard joining a new team. Are there other women closer to your age on your team? They may be more understanding. Or not... When I first started swimming with a very informal masters group at my local gym, there was a woman my age with some decent times that previously swam with a famous coach in our area, ran a summer swim team and generally had a high opinion of herself. She would occasionally make somewhat snide comments to me or give me "advice" on how to compete. I listened politely, but ignored the attempts at one-upmanship. I still see her a lot because now our daughters are at all the same meets ... She's not currently competing. Fortunately, when I joined a real team, I found a lot of 35-60 year olds with a few youngsters as well. But none of them, I don't believe, would ever make fun of a newbie's abilities. (You might get ragged on, as I do, for missing practices.) So try to ignore those catty 20 somethings and just concentrate on your own improvement. You may improve more quickly than you -- or they -- think. Once you check out the "current top times" (competition tab), you can ask them if they can beat Susan V. or Karlyn P-N or Lisa Dahl. I don't think so either. :thhbbb: There are some amazing older women swimming. And the fact that you're there getting your feet wet, and willing to try your best, makes you amazing too! It's not easy to start over. It took me 24 years to get back in the pool.

Barb - When I first started swimming a few years ago I got a similiar attitude from a tri swimmer. He acted like he was too good to be bothered by questions from newbies. It's ironic, because now I train at a faster pace than he races. And I'm 20 years older.

I am now in the position of not being in the fastest lane anymore, and am experiencing what it seems you and others have been subject to. The fast lane in my club is a clique that, for whatever reason, does not feel or practice "noblesse oblige" and rarely speak to anyone not in the lane. This is not healthy for the club or sport. Part of the result is that our club, while having about 160 members on Masters, has rarely more than 3 or 4 people at any swim meet. Others, myself included, choose to attach to other clubs that are more accepting of different ages and speeds, or have more to offer socially. My general experience with the fastest of swimmers, the true cream of the crop (I know many in all ages) record setters and speed demons is that they are quite friendly and approachable. They have the knowledge of their accomplishments and the work needed to perform at a very high level, and do not need to put others down to get validation. I have witnessed a bit of "elitism" among folks in the "fastest lane" with my club too. You are only allowed in that lane if you meet certain criteria and like to do gnarly sets. However, we do have a broad cross section of ages and abilities on my team so we spread out amicably. Unfortunately, we don't have that many people competing in meets either despite the fact that we host meets and attendance is strongly encouraged. As to the "cream of the crop," I have largely had the same experience as Michael. The world record holders and other ranked swimmers that I know are very gracious, friendly and willing to offer assistance. I have seen this at meets, at practice and on this forum. Offhand, I can only think of one or two notable exceptions of ego run amuck. But that just happens sometimes. Generally, as you say, the "elite," for lack of a better word, don't need further validation. Ensignada: I began only 1 1/2 years ago training masters. Just keep up the good work and compete if the urge strikes you. No better goal than to achieve great fitness and have fun while doing so!