Elite vs. Fitness

Steve, Just responding to a couple of your points. I don't necessarily disagree with you; I'd just like to look at them from a different angle: Nationals and optimal conditions for fast swimming: that is one value, but there are lots of others in USMS. I'm not sold on the idea that Nationals need to be about that one thing. My feeling personally is that I get a thrill out of swimming in the same meet with the likes of the evil Smith twins. Don't you get a thrill when Rowdy Gaines or Gary Hall sign up for USMS Nationals? Wouldn't you feel a little put out if more 20 and 30 something World Class swimmers started showing up for USMS Nationals, and wanted to toss you out of the meet so they could have "optimal conditions"? Self run meets: correct me if I'm wrong, but a couple of years ago didn't Tall Paul and a few of best USMS swimmers in the Western States start calling out other swimmers of their caliber and invited them to attend a blazingly fast USMS event in Mission Viejo? (I might be wrong about the site of the meet, but I'm pretty sure it was in CA.) It seems to me this kind of thing can happen, and may have already, when the best of the best all agree among themselves they will all show up for this meet because it's "important" (because they have all agreed to show up). It could be Nationals; it could be any dang meet that strikes their fancy. The Tall One has also tried to drum up interest in a third, SCM National meet in the late Nov/early Dec timeframe, with limited success. You are absolutely correct in observing that USMS works hard finding organizations capable of hosting a meet the size of Nationals, and crazy enough to try. Adding a third National meet of that size would strain the volunteer resevoir in USMS, perhaps beyond what it can sustain. Why, however, do we need another three-ring-circus like USMS Nationals for the best of the best to get together? Matt

This poll really bothers me. Why can't USMS move to build its membership with both competitive swimmers and lap/fitness swimmers. I believe that would be the ideal job for the E.D. once one is hired. The E. D. positon is probably the best thing USMS has ever done. It should really show us a great change in the organization of the organization and the steady continuation ofthe goals established by the executive committee and Board of Directors. I wish that I had more of the background for the position. I woudl have loved to have gotten it back when I was younger.

I appreciate this (recently) healthy discussion. I have to make a point regarding the statement "Nationals and optimal conditions for fast swimming: that is one value, but there are lots of others in USMS." I agree there are other values (like getting lots of people involved), but I don't think they are or should be in competition with what I take as a given, that if you are putting on a swim meet and timing the races, you want to optimize the conditions for fast swimming. There are a number of levels of swimming that I don't and never have qualified for, to preserve optimal conditions for better athletes, and I don't feel put out. I'll cross that bridge regarding USMS nationals if/when I get to it.

Talk about optimal conditions: as reported elsewhere The Coral Springs Nationals Beer Garden is planned at the tennis center adjacent to the pool (a minute or two walk from the competition pool). It will be open for both lap swimmers and those in the top 10.

USMS can be beneficial to both these groups. We must give the competitive swimmer all the help we can because they are pushing the envelope and going into places where others have not been before. Exciting stuff. On the other hand whenever I am in a pool I see many so called lap swimmers who are successful and happy in our sport and swimming for all the right reasons. Lets not forget how open water swimming is growing and that there are several groups within the open water ranks. The so called solo swimmers who may not be fast but can swim forever -like across the channel, or complete a 10K for the first time. Others race any distance and love the competition. Both are successful and included in our USMS family. We have Gary Hall’s Race Club where the state of the art training is offered from the worlds best sprint pro’s, Total Immersion’s technique help and the numerous fitness programs offered through our USMS fitness committee. Something for everyone. One of my greatest swim memories was to have helped Sharon Luca, a blind swimmer swim 12 miles around Key West. She did not get a medal for her speed but we did award her a spirit award. She was as much a part of the event as the medalists. I remember visiting the Hubbard Family Swim School in Scottsdale, Arizona and noticed that posted on the bulletin board they had articles of Olympic Champion swimmers and recent meet results. All this in a learn to swim environment. They have their eye on excellence while not forgetting everyone else. Excellent stuff to expose the kids to. So let’s try to bring everyone that enjoys getting wet into our great sport. We should do this over a Guinness.

Thank you Randy for bring some light to this issue. I am new to reading and posting on the forum, but it seems that it had gotten a bit intense at times on what an elite swimmer is or isnt, I guess that type of thinking automaticaly makes me a lap/fitness swimmer irregardless of my goals. I work in healthcare so my focus is to celebrate life in all its glories and follies because it may not be there tomorrow. I truly enjoy and am a bit jeslous of others who swim fast but I am equally impressed with the person who can't but tries anyways and keeps trying, in fact maybe a little more impressed by that person, to me that is the truly "elite" swimmer. I am guessing and hoping there are more of those swimmers in the USMS membership...

As for nationals, I'd like us to make up our mind if we'd rather have a "festival" or a "championship" meet. I'd say we are closer to the festival (big, fun, social), which has its advantages for many people. The Nationals format does not seem to do so well at catering to the smaller group of faster swimmers (very long days, crowded warmups, segmented too much by age v. speed). I'm not saying the meet totally fails for these swimmers, but it could be improved. I'd prefer seeding by time over age, as that seems like it would provide better competition for the faster swimmers. At the facilities nationals are held at, it should not matter what lane you . Sorry to drag up an old thread, but with so many newbies like myself, I thought it would be enlightening. I think it's great that nationals is more like a "festival." Good fellowship and fast swimming is the best combination. Keep the qualifying times, but let the less elite swimmers come and swim their 3 free events. What a great feeling for them. If it inconveniences fast swimmers a bit because they can't leave by 2:00 pm, that doesn't really get my knickers in a twist. They can still have dinner and go to bed early while the festival continues. As for the divide between elite and fitness swimmers, I haven't noticed a divisive schism since joining the forum. People genuinely seem to want to help or empathize. I have witnessed some elite swimmers being very opinionated about their views and a little bullying/dismissive of those who aren't as "elite" or who aren't themselves coaches. Was there agreement on what was "elite?" Is it making national cuts or, as Gull said, just competing in meets?

I believe that we decided that 'elite' was all of us regular posters to the forum.

I am glad Dr. Suess dragged up this thread. I remember hearing about this long before I started posting. Some very interesting viewpoints. My thought on nationals is that it is pretty cool that pretty much any USMS swimmer can go - and is something I know I mention every time I try to recruit folks to come (or just get into the pool). Also, a different view on the honor of going to nationals: consider folks like myself who never swam AAU/USS/YMCA/NCAA. Folks who are getting in the water for the first time ever, or after 20-30-40 years. Folks who have swum all their life and love it but can never challenge michael phelps. For all of us who never got the chance to qualify for a national meet as a kid, now, we can go to the national meet whenever we want just because we can. I think that is pretty cool. Now, I do make NQTs, and do quite alright for myself as well. :joker:

I've been swimming Masters for 13 years now and for the first time ever, this past weekend, I encountered somewhat an "elitist" attitude. A girl on my team (very fast) commented that she was nervous about racing another girl on my team (faster than her!), and she commented that, "I don't know why I'm nervous, she's at my level." I was really surprised. The faster girl was an NCAA finalist and the even faster girl had her Trials cuts "back in the day." But it was quite clear that Ms. NCAA finalist saw herself as above the rest of us. That's something I haven't encountered in Masters before. When I mentioned this to Trials girl she too looked befuddled and said, "Those swims were so long ago. There are no levels in Masters." Interesting. Seems like a very tame comment to me. I feel she was just trying to stay positive and psyche herself up for what she knew would be a challenging race. NCAA mentions no one else other than Ms. Trials, so not sure where the "rest of us" come into play, other than they are both above my "level." Anyway, so don't keep us hanging. Who won? Race recap?