Elite vs. Fitness

If people would learn & use lane etiquette I think some of the "elitist" attitude would go away. It's hard to be gracious and friendly to somebody who is interfering with your workout, whether they are faster than you or slower and whether it's blundering or intentional.

ensignada, In your post you refer to a "wall of elitism" which turned you off, but went no further to describe the phenomenon. I am very interested in knowing about what you encountered, not only to compare with my own experiences, but to address the perception that could be contrary to the good health of USMS. When I was younger, I was what may have been referred to as elite, meaning a fast, competitive swimmer, but always knew that Masters was filled with members having many different ability and dedication levels. I was happy to help others with stroke technique or encourage them to try a meet experience. I am now in the position of not being in the fastest lane anymore, and am experiencing what it seems you and others have been subject to. The fast lane in my club is a clique that, for whatever reason, does not feel or practice "noblesse oblige" and rarely speak to anyone not in the lane. This is not healthy for the club or sport. Part of the result is that our club, while having about 160 members on Masters, has rarely more than 3 or 4 people at any swim meet. Others, myself included, choose to attach to other clubs that are more accepting of different ages and speeds, or have more to offer socially. My general experience with the fastest of swimmers, the true cream of the crop (I know many in all ages) record setters and speed demons is that they are quite friendly and approachable. They have the knowledge of their accomplishments and the work needed to perform at a very high level, and do not need to put others down to get validation. Unfortunately, I also have had experiences with "fitness" swimmers that can really make life miserable. Not a lot, but memorable ones just the same. They can be just as offputting as the "elite" swimmers I imagine you have referred to. We are all in this together, for better or worse, so why not make it better? It is a truly rare facility that can afford to have but one person per lane at all times, so we may as well learn to get along.

"ensignada, In your post you refer to a "wall of elitism" which turned you off, but went no further to describe the phenomenon. I am very interested in knowing about what you encountered, not only to compare with my own experiences, but to address the perception that could be contrary to the good health of USMS. " Michael - I approached a group of master's swimmers (women) in the locker room before their workout started, asking how long they'd been with the team, did they compete and mentioned my interest (albeit future interest). One woman looked me in square in the eye and told me that unless I could swim 4000 yds uninterupted, I wouldn't be able to keep up. Two others chimed in and said they had all swam in college (they were in their mid to late 20's?), so they were very "focussed". I got a similar reaction from a swimmer I approached after a workout. I have not talked to a coach as of yet. I will pursue this further the closer I get to being ready to swim with the big kids. I've got big shoulders, and I understand the individual nature of the sport, but it would be so nice in the beginning to feel welcomed - especially after the first workout puts me in traction. I appreciate all of your comments to my original posting. It feels great to be welcomed and and my intent understood here - and for right now that's enough support. Many, many thanks. (Should we all have a group hug at this point?) :D

A couple of comments on this thread and the "morphing" of the original discussion. - The original intent that JS was going for was to gauge whether or not registered swimmers with USMS felt the organization slanted its focus/mission to far in one direction or another. This came about from observations of people who attended the convention over the years and feeling of "us" vs. "them" seemed to permeate.....if you wanted to grow membership, have more meets, set reasonable qualifying standards, etc. you we're "elite". If on the other hand you wanted things to stay as they are and tended to be more oriented towad the fitness side of things then you we're in that camp. - To any newbies who may feel that there is an "attitude".....having swam with dozens of teams all over the country I would say that this may be a misperception.....my wife and I find that people tend to hang together mostly because they have been in a lane/group for a long time...and often are busy chatting it up....easy to take it as elite or cliquish but I doubt its often the case. - To the point above....in general when we are training with a new team its rare to have anyone approach us...but beacuse we are so loud and obnoxious we usually get to know people quickly....rather they want to know us or not! In fact...being a person who likes to shake things up a bit...I usually go to one of the slower lanes.....which often creates a little bit of a stir....right Brian (my coach at the Manatee's)....?! :banana: - So....my suggestion.....don't "assume" anything unless someone outright says something rude....then go to the coach. - As for anyone who is training and/or competing in MASTERS swimming who cops any kind of ELITIST attitude.....well all I can say is I hope someday they get a life!! :) Its MASTERS!!!!!

Ensignada, I am with you, a group hug coming from Roatan. I have also had a bad experience from a group of TI swimmers doing the triathlon down here. They thought they would clean-up, criticized us older and not-fit looking swimmers, and they were wiped off the map. Sadly, sometimes it is an eye-opener when a swimmer does think their skill is close to ultimate, but finds that there can be other swimmers of great caliber, and I do always love being beat by a person who has compassion for others' efforts. The kind of swimmer who beats me, gets out and hugs me for my efforts. That is SPECIAL. Swimming our best regardless of what that is, IS the most important thing, right after graciousness to others. Friendship to others is most important to me. And I always have a tendency to root for the under-dog, the person who is slower because I know what they have experienced to complete a distance. Sorry folks if you think I got off-topic, but the discussion was turning to not only elite swimmers, but not-kind behaviour from some of them. But like I said earlier, I only encountered two of these kinds of people and for that I am grateful. For the most part, people in swimming and most sports are truly wonderful people. Everyone just trying to do their best. Like Nemo said, Keep On Swimming, Donna

That's for all the support. I made no comment to the younger swimmers because I realize that they have yet to get into the meat of life. I'm very happy with my age and my goals. When I feel I'm ready to train with a team, I'll do it. (If the younger ones give me too much guff, I'll just change in front of them and scare them with my stretch marks!)

Ensignada, I loved your reply to this post. I want you to think about something as you continue to swim with a handful of swimmers who may think they are elite, whatever that is to some. Sometimes, a swimmer with "attitude" only has that attitude because they are big fish in a little pond. Humility is usually learned when they have to swim with big fish in a big pond. You will make more progress faster than they will now for they may be close to their peak performances. As you continue your journey toward fitness and faster swimming, and you do lane change, it is always obvious to others. And if and when you continue to move up and change lanes, you will be able to add appreciation and humility to the faster lane. Something that others in the slower lanes will very much appreciate. I have only encountered two fast swimmers with "attitude" in the years that I used to swim Masters. And the beauty of this "attitude" is there Is someone out there much faster. No one stays on the podium in first place for long; not in sports. Donna

Just wait until Jeff Erwin and Mike Shaffer age up! I don't think they'll ever slow down. I swam the hour swim at the same time as Jeff a couple years ago and he is like a machine. He was reeling off 3 laps for my 2.

5000 yards in one hour--that's elite. The record in my age group is 5500. I suspect it will take over 4800 to place in the top ten. Just wait until Jeff Erwin and Mike Shaffer age up!

For me when I now walk to the beach I swim 40 strokes one way and 40 strokes the other way, then I hobble back to pool on the beach and sun myself for an hour to rest and that proves I am not Elite but maybe unique.