Fina Rules

Really!?! that's the first I heard of it I wish I could take multiply fly kicks off each wall in breastroke and there were the a 15 meter rule. talk about a game changer ande Originally posted by Allen Stark I just got my new Swimming World and it said that FINA was looking at allowing a dolphin kick in the breaststroke pullout. Does anyone know the status of this?

I had heard the FINA Bureau approved the change in the rule to be brought. before the FINA Congress (All rules must be approved by the Congress). The Congress will meet in Montreal just before the World Championships. The Congress does not have to approve the rule approved by the Bureau. If I remember right, the rule was proposed in the FINA technical committee. michael

Michael,Thanks! Wayne,Kitajima didn't even wait for the pull down to cheat! Not having an especially good dolphin kick I hope they don't change the rule. Why not put it in line with the other strokes and say you just have to break the surface by 15 meters and can take as many strokes as you can before that.

This is just typical with FINA This comment seems to suggest that FINA you think the gnomes in Lausanne autocratically decide what the rules will be and force them down every federation. My understanding is that the rule was proposed by the Technical Swimming Committee (chaired by Carol Zaleski of the US). There are 12 members of the committee representing 12 different federations. The rule was sent to the FINA Bureau, which is made up of 22 members representing 22 Federations (of the over 190 federations that belong to FINA). There are five vice-presidents it is my understanding that the vice presidents are elected by all of the of the Federations, but each vice president has to belong to their own geographical area (there are five geographical areas: Europe, Africa, Asia, Americas and Oceana). The other bureau members are elected by their own geographical areas. The Bureau acts the Board of Directors between congresses. The FINA Congress meets once every four years (This time is was five years because the meeting time was changed from meeting during the Olympics to meeting during the world Championships). It will be the Congress that decides on the FINA rules. (Wayne, I did not mean to pick on you, but there is not much knowledge within USMS on how FINA operates). michael

This is just typical with FINA. In the 80's the European breaststrokers were dipping their heads below the waters surface, against the rules at the time. Since they were able to beat the americans this rule change was adopted. Now that Kitijama was allowed to cheat on the underwater pulldown, and by the way beat the american swimmer, then it is obvious that they would allow the rule to be changed. Thats OK, those of us who tried the Kitijama dolphin on the pulldown KNOW that it works and can be done. This rule should be called the Kitijama Rule in honor of the biggest cheat ever. Hey Kitijama, lets hear that big roar you did after cheating your way to a Gold Medal! What is honor? Don't ask Kitijama! We are ready for the rule makers, GO A HEAD and MAKE OUR DAYS:D Allen Stark, you better practice this as it really works. Heck, why don't we just go to two (2) pulldowns! How about a dolphin being allowed going into the turn like Bossini? How about a dolphin at the end of each kick!:confused: I know a certain master swimmer who has been DQ'd for this dozens of times. Since he comes from an Eastern Block country FINA might approve this rule change:mad: A beer for those of you who can name this great swimmer who swam his way from the Communists.

Originally posted by Allen Stark Michael,Thanks! Wayne,Kitajima didn't even wait for the pull down to cheat! Not having an especially good dolphin kick I hope they don't change the rule. Why not put it in line with the other strokes and say you just have to break the surface by 15 meters and can take as many strokes as you can before that. Do you really think he won the race becuse he did a little dolphin kick? I think he won because he swam faster. George

Michael, Great explanation on the membership. But you delicately skirted the issue of how rules get forced by the gnomes upon us. When was the last time a member of the USA was President of FINA? When was the last time the USA had any real say in FINA? How is the President of FINA treated? I know you can't say. When he was intruded at Olympic trials, I was one of many who did the opposite of cheer. I notice no challenge to my observations on the changes to the breaststroke rules:D Geochuck, I have spent dozens of hours looking at the CHEATER Kitijama. How does a smaller man gain so much distance on bigger stronger swimmers on both the start and every turn/pushoff? Why by breaking the rules. He has a HUGE dolphin when his body enters the water from the dive. Then another strong dolphin at the START of the pulldown and on the pulldown off each turn. He gains about 18 to 24 inches off the dive dolphin and about 18 inches advantage off of each pulldown dolphin. I challenge your notion that he swam faster than Hansen. He did not win the 100 by nealy as much as what he cheated.

Originally posted by SwiminONandON Ok ... I am going to try and not fly off the hanles on this one ... First of all Peirsol did NOTHING wrong. There is NO way he should have dq'ed. The rule is a full stroke - I don't not believe it says anything about gliding. SW 6.4 During the turn the shoulders may be turned over the vertical to the *** after which a continuous single arm pull or a continuous simultaneous double arm pull may be used to initiate the turn. Once the body has left the position on the back, any kick or arm pull must be part of the continuous turning action. The swimmer must have returned to the position on the back upon leaving the wall. When executing the turn there must be a touch of the wall with some part of the swimmer’s body. So, no, there is no explicit wording that gliding is forbidden. However, if you glide is this a "continuous turning action?" I would say no. I don't think most judges are going to DQ you unless this glide is pretty pronounced OR you continue to kick after you've completed the arm pull.

That same Swimming World section(bottom of page 10 Apr. 05 issue) says the 2 other proposed rule changes are to have judges use underwater cameras and to delete all references to kick in the backstroke turn. It seems to me if they use underwater cameras they don't need to chaange the breaststroke rule!

Originally posted by SwiminONandON I thought I remembered Kitajima dolphin kicking on both the 100 and 200 and only cleaning that up for the relay. if i'm remembering correctly, he cleaned up his act for the 200, because the commentators commented on how each of his turns on the 200 was textbook and legal... at least in the finals. Originally posted by SwiminONandON As for the gliding thing for Peirsol ... I don't understand the rule because it seems to me that turning onto your stomach and gliding would slow you down. I would think it would be better to take an extra stroke before turning than it would be to flip over as long as you aren't kicking or pulling anymore. Peirsol's turn I will defend until my dying day. i've got your back on this one! if you're going to DQ Piersol for gliding to wall on his last turn (and i'm pretty darn sure it was the final turn- not his first- that DQ'd him) you'd needed to have DQ'd the entire field. that last turn on a 200 back can be a killer (and this is coming from a 200 backstroker!!!) and yeah, we can't change what happened- we can only hope next time Hansen and Kitajima swim head-to-head, Kitajima swims a clean race...