The Fastest Age

Originally posted by gull80 Perhaps there are two questions: !. Why isn't Ion swimming faster than he is? 2. Are "late starters" at a relative disadvantage on a physiological basis (Ion's theory--underdeveloped VO2max) that cannot be overcome regardless of the amount of training? Maybe Ion isn't swimming faster due to his technique, or maybe he just needs more time. My understanding is that Ion had been swimming since his late twenties. He recently said that he is around 44 years of age. As for swimmers not reaching their potential because of the late start, how do you evaluate and quantify what certain individual potential could have been had they started earlier? Also, correct me if I'm wrong, last I read about VO2Max, I was left under the impression that a lof of finer points of it are not yet completey understood in medical or sports community. Also, I read that a larger part of the VO2Max capoacity is due to heredity, rather than early sports development. So, how do we quantify just how much of an advantage early development gives to someone???

Originally posted by Conniekat8 As for swimmers not reaching their potential because of the late start, how do you evaluate and quantify what certain individual potential could have been had they started earlier? Exactly. No way to know what might have been. That's life.

Originally posted by Conniekat8 Also, I read that a larger part of the VO2Max capacity is due to heredity, rather than early sports development. So, how do we quantify just how much of an advantage early development gives to someone??? Through training you can increase your VO2max up to a limit that is probably hereditary. As pointed out earlier, VO2max is not the only determinant of athletic performance, but it does correlate. If you start late, have you forever lost the chance to reach your highest possible VO2max? If you start at a young age, then leave the sport for fifteen or twenty years, can you readily regain the VO2max (and/or other training adaptations) that you had when you were younger? Or is it the technique that stays with you? Does anyone still care?

Connie, I really am having trouble with this: Do you not think that it is a disadvantage to start swimming late in life? That is just stupid. If your problem is with Ion personally, then why attack his theory and ideas? Are you unable to seperate the two?

Originally posted by lefty ... If your problem is with Ion personally, then why attack his theory and ideas? Are you unable to seperate the two? Looks like she is unable to separate the two. She wrote: Originally posted by Conniekat8 Sorry Ion, I really don't give much attention to this late bloomer thing, even if I am one. ... but she is contradicting herself by getting into this 'late bloomer' discussion just to argue. Me, when I see this: Originally posted by gull80 ... If you start late, have you forever lost the chance to reach your highest possible VO2max? If you start at a young age, then leave the sport for fifteen or twenty years, can you readily regain the VO2max (and/or other training adaptations) that you had when you were younger? Or is it the technique that stays with you? Does anyone still care? I care about "...Does anyone still care?": as a late bloomer I am fast and I overtake a majority of lifelong USMS swimmers, but I would like to know and use more information to progress. Also the 'Foremost World Authority in Adult Swimming' should care about "...Does anyone still care?", but it doesn't.

Too many errors to address. I pick this: Originally posted by mattson ... Swimmers at the Olympic level also have much better technique than your average swimmer. They are not looking for TI-style changes, because they are already swimming that way. ... It is incorrect: .) I posted a few posts ago, that unlike what Total Immersion claims, Popov doesn't overlap but uses the rotary style; .) I posted a few posts ago, that unlike what Total Immersion claims, Ervin doesn't streamline after the turn, he is faster by breaking the water earlier than what's recommended; .) van den Hoogenband is asymetrical in freestyle but he is the world record holder in the 100; .) coach Colwin claims to not change a swimmer's own style in order to match an abstract 'technique'; after all, swimming fast is not ballet. And so on for everything else that you claim in that post.

Nice try ion, but having recently attended the ASCA level II stroke school (September in San Diego) and being a TI instructor, I can, with confidence, assure you that there is little that the top swimmers are doing (and that the top coaches are teaching) that is inconsistent with what TI advocates in terms of technique. Particularly with Popov. Stick to your work as an ungineer extraordinaire.

Originally posted by aquageek Ion - please let us know how you are able to track this data. ... Simply I know the rankings and spoke to the swimmers.

Ion, About Popov's rotary style, didn't you say that he (or someone like him) had arms 90 degrees out of phase, and isn't that the classic picture of front-quadrant swimming (one arm outstretched, the other recovering by the head?) You understand that many beginning swimmers think the arms should always be 180 degrees apart, and that these are the swimmers TI is trying to address.

I disagree with this: Originally posted by MetroSwim ... that is inconsistent with what TI advocates in terms of technique. Particularly with Popov. ... Read the coach Colwin's quote that I gave earlier about Popov's rotary style not overlapping style. The overlapping style that Popov is allegedly using is a hard core stereotype in USMS only, not in US Swimming where the age-group swimmers are. I recommend anyone to do their homework before posting at my level.