Hi guys I'm new to this forum. My friend, a good swimmer, told me the pushing force from the hands are the major force which lead the head out of water. I'm not sure if he's correct as he doesn't specialize in butterfly.
To me
1. the deeper my head dips (just after recovery, when both hands stretch far in front), the easier my head gets out of water
2. when I catch the water, a small force is provided by the hands as well. This small force helps my head get out of water
3. the pushing of the hands, however, should be used mainly for propelling
I breath every two strokes, which means during my second stroke, my head remains in the water. So I guess the the pushing hands should not contribute to any force regarding leading the head up.
I would appreciate if anyone could help me know if these are correct. Thank you in advance.
Well --- if you pick up your head and arch your back this will happen. Yes - hands will do this if other factors are in play. Do you kick as your hands are at the furthest back? this is when you should take a breath.
Yes, the propulsive force of the arms in the front quadrant is going to lift your upper body up higher in the water. There's bound to be some force component directed downward at the front of the stroke. This sets up the breath, but I wouldn't go as far as saying it "leads the head" out of the water.
Well --- if you pick up your head and arch your back this will happen. Yes - hands will do this if other factors are in play. Do you kick as your hands are at the furthest back? this is when you should take a breath.
thanks very much for the reply, I think I breath too early. When my hands recover, my head has dipped into water. I think I'm making some mistakes and I hope some one would help me correct them.
I think I don't have this position as shown in the photo
www.abc.net.au/.../4169278-3x2-940x627.jpg
thank steve and knelson for the replies
so it seems kicking alone is enough to raise the head up, and the hands would help too
May I ask if the 'catch water' or 'pushing' give more forces to raise the head up? if it's the 'catch water' part is it like as in the case of breaststroke? I'm thinking if I'm making a mistake of breathing too early
thanks in advance
May I ask if the 'catch water' or 'pushing' give more forces to raise the head up? if it's the 'catch water' part is it like as in the case of breaststroke?
I don't want to hijack a fly thread for BR,but I don't understand the BR reference. In BR you should raise to breathe by the force of your insweep and simultaneously lifting your torso from the waist. Is the insweep your "catch water"?
May I ask if the 'catch water' or 'pushing' give more forces to raise the head up? if it's the 'catch water' part is it like as in the case of breaststroke? I'm thinking if I'm making a mistake of breathing too early
I'm not really sure. I would watch videos of great butterflyers and try to determine when they are lifting their heads.
thank steve and knelson for the replies
so it seems kicking alone is enough to raise the head up, and the hands would help too
May I ask if the 'catch water' or 'pushing' give more forces to raise the head up? if it's the 'catch water' part is it like as in the case of breaststroke? I'm thinking if I'm making a mistake of breathing too early
thanks in advance
in my opinion, there are a few different forces that can be used to raise your head enough for a breath. it should be initiated by the start of your press. The point at which your arms are anchored with an EVF, is when you should be breathing, and should be retracting back into the water as you recover (proof: try swinging your arms with your head up, and again with your head down...one is a lot easier than the other). the kick is also another element to help drive the head, as well as keep your body line near the surface of the water. The head should be driving forward, not upward (upward drive of the upper half of the body = downward drive of the lower half = unnecessary resistance/drag). Lastly, make use of natural forces. Focus on driving yourself forward, as buoyancy is what will bring up to the surface. Let buoyancy pull you up, let gravity pull you down; your goal is maximizing the use of your body for forward momentum and minimizing the up and down.
...The point at which your arms are anchored with an EVF, is when you should be breathing, and should be retracting back into the water as you recover (proof: try swinging your arms with your head up, and again with your head down...one is a lot easier than the other). ... The head should be driving forward, not upward (upward drive of the upper half of the body = downward drive of the lower half = unnecessary resistance/drag). ... your goal is maximizing the use of your body for forward momentum and minimizing the up and down.
I'm all in with Mr Pope here.. In both Fly and *** we try to teach our kids to keep the back of the head in line with the spine and breath at a 45 degree angle to the water as opposed to pulling the head up at all. The front portion (catch) of the pull lifts the upper body, and getting your breath at this time (in the pocket) allows the head to lower with the body line for the recovery.
