Dolphin kick off walls - freestyle

Thanks for the praise, however exaggerated; it sure would be nice to go 15m in 5 dolphin kicks (instead of 11-12)! But realize that John is the real expert here in the 200 free, though too modest (and out of shape) to admit it. I just dabble. He is right to think about the effect that early kicking does on the last 50, which is painful enough as it is. The bottom line is that the "proper" number of kicks is going to vary from person to person based on how good a kicker you are and your conditioning level (and habits in practice). I think it is a good idea to experiment and see what works best, and also to revisit the issue if you work hard on improving your underwater kicking and conditioning. I seem to remember someone in another kicking-related thread claiming that kickers are made, not born. While certainly one can always improve any aspect of swimming, I would have to disagree with that statement (putting aside false modesty: I was a better kicker at 8 years old than some ever get to be). Some people are natural-born kickers and others aren't. For example, if your ankles can't hyperextend a lot then I wouldn't worry too much about dolphin kicking and just get up to the surface and start swimming. SpeedoRocks, I just wanted to add to my last post and let you know that your drive and desire to improve your swimming, to work hard and to experiment with different techniques is really inspiring. The point of this forum is to help and encourage our fellow Masters swimmers, to be a positive force, and to give them hope in the pursuit of their dreams, as opposed to claiming that some are just "born" with it and encouraging them to just settle for less. You have to believe that anything is possible and that you CAN improve your strength and speed at any age and at any level, while keeping realistic expectations as to how quickly that improvement will come. Keep up the great work and never settle for less!

The point of this forum is to help and encourage our fellow Masters swimmers, to be a positive force, and to give them hope in the pursuit of their dreams, as opposed to claiming that some are just "born" with it and encouraging them to just settle for less. Sometimes settling for less is faster and for me , less than 11 kicks definately is. Everyone has strengths and weeknesses and using them in a manner to maximize performance I think was the point.

Sometimes settling for less is faster and for me , less than 11 kicks definately is. Everyone has strengths and weeknesses and using them in a manner to maximize performance I think was the point. Steve, the number of kicks was not my point. You may have missed my first post. Here it is, for your convenience: Hi SpeedoRocks, Lately, dolphin kick has become the better option off of the walls during races. However,from what I saw in your freestyle video (forums.usms.org/showthread.ph...reestyle-video), you need to work more on improving the efficiency of your dolphin kick before you can try for 5-6 kicks out of each wall in a 200m freestyle race. For now, I would suggest not worrying so much about how many dolphin kicks you take out of each wall, as much as I would concentrate on how efficient your dolphin kicks are (however many or few they may be). In the video, you are taking 2 dolphin kicks off of the wall - I think given your level, 5-6 kicks at this point would be more of a disadvantage than a benefit. If you continue to improve the strength and speed of your dolphin kick, you can try taking more kicks during practice. Its better to experiment and work on technique issues in practice than in a race. Bringing any new element into a race without trying it in practice first throws in the additional variable of uncertainty.

. ..... I do 5 kicks off every wall in the 200 free and don't think it hurts me (quite the opposite); ...... That is impressive. I would blow apart with that much time underwater on a 200 free ..... :-)

Chris and Ande are correct. Great kickers are usually born ..... (as are *** strokers). You can certainly improve your abilities ....... but genetics rule in the end. It's just life. Back to the issue..... Chris is an exception in my opinion ..... Unless you are in GREAT shape, don't spend too much time underwater on a 200 free. For old people, it isn't worth the trade off in terms of lost oxygen by the end of the race. You'll crater the last 50. Keep your kick counts high and crater in your races It's an excellent way to entertain your friends at meets Death by 200 fly seems to work the best www.youtube.com/watch forums.usms.org/showthread.php

Chris and Ande are correct. Great kickers are usually born ..... (as are *** strokers). You can certainly improve your abilities ....... but genetics rule in the end. It's just life. And I remember Gary Hall touched on this here a while back. To paraphrase--if I'm remembering correctly--he said the kick is a dangerous weapon and you should work on it, BUT if you're not a good kicker you're probably never going to be a great kicker, so concentrating on it too much is probably a waste of time. I think many swimmers, and maybe masters swimmers especially, need to keep this in mind. Just because some people can swim faster by doing a lot of SDKing doesn't mean everyone can. If you're faster on the surface then swim on the surface! You've got to remember that the goal is to swim is as fast as you can, not to look like Ryan Lochte.

And I remember Gary Hall touched on this here a while back. To paraphrase--if I'm remembering correctly--he said the kick is a dangerous weapon and you should work on it, BUT if you're not a good kicker you're probably never going to be a great kicker, so concentrating on it too much is probably a waste of time. I think many swimmers, and maybe masters swimmers especially, need to keep this in mind. Just because some people can swim faster by doing a lot of SDKing doesn't mean everyone can. If you're faster on the surface then swim on the surface! You've got to remember that the goal is to swim is as fast as you can, not to look like Ryan Lochte. Gary Hall actually appears to take the opposite view, from the articles that I have read. In his Finis blog from December 7, 2012, he debunks the myth that "kicking is overrated". (www.finisinc.com/.../gary-hall-swimming-myths-debunked-6). In another article from Triathlete magazine in May 2013, he says "The good news about kicking is that if you don’t have good flexibility in your ankles, you can develop it very quickly (within weeks) and increase your propulsion without swimming harder." He encourages swimmers to improve their kick and emphasizes the importance of the kick in swimming. (triathlon.competitor.com/.../why-its-important-to-conquer-the-swim-kick_75540) It's a huge discouragement to tell new swimmers that they may as well give up if they don't have a strong kick from the outset. It's true that you can be born with specific physical attributes that may give you an edge over the competition, but that does not mean that someone else can't surpass you through hard work and smart coaching.

Great kickers are usually born ..... (as are *** strokers). You can certainly improve your abilities ....... but genetics rule in the end. It's just life. I always get lapped by my team mates during flutter kick, but i was faster than them at the dolphin kick. So what is that suppose to mean?

..........The point of this forum is to help and encourage our fellow Masters swimmers, to be a positive force, and to give them hope in the pursuit of their dreams, as opposed to claiming that some are just "born" with it and encouraging them to just settle for less. You have to believe that anything is possible and that you CAN improve your strength and speed at any age and at any level, while keeping realistic expectations as to how quickly that improvement will come........ Chris and Ande are correct. Great kickers are usually born ..... (as are *** strokers). You can certainly improve your abilities ....... but genetics rule in the end. It's just life. Back to the issue..... Chris is an exception in my opinion ..... Unless you are in GREAT shape, don't spend too much time underwater on a 200 free. For old people, it isn't worth the trade off in terms of lost oxygen by the end of the race. You'll crater the last 50.

Yeah, what happened? When I search I get results from 2013, then anything else is about ten years old. It seems like results before 2013--except really old stuff--can't be searched. This has been a problem for some time now. The posts are there, but somehow won't show up in a search.