How fast do you kick compared to swimming?
This is prompted by a set in pwb's High Volume Workouts where a kicking interval/100 was 20 seconds more than normal swimming interval.
The question: What is the spread between your challenge interval for 5x100 swimming and 5x100 kicking?
In my case, I can kick fly on an interval 40 seconds slower than the fastest interval I can make for 5x100 swimming. Free kick is 10 seconds slower (slower than fly kicking).
I do not agree there is any function that can accurately determine kicking speed from swimming speed.
If you are saying that the variables are completely independent, I would have to disagree, though the correlation is probably weaker for distance swimmers. (And nowadays some of those elite distance types can really get the motor going back there at the end of the race!)
Though you do seem to be quite the outlier...but I mean that in a good way: an exceptionally fast swimmer for your kick speed! :)
I guess the moral of this story is college swimmers tend to be better kickers (comparatively) than masters swimmers.
Or age group swimmers. A lot -- I think a majority -- of the NOVA age-groupers (800+ swimmers, Gold-medal USA-S club) of HS age cannot do 100 kick repeats on the 1:30.
Can you do 30x100 on 1:10 yet? If you can swim 5 on 1:10, you ought to be able to get close to 1:30-1:35 without fins. How stiff are your ankles?
No, 30 on 1:10 is still out of reach.
I do not agree there is any function that can accurately determine kicking speed from swimming speed. There have been times in my life where 50+ 100s on 1:10 was doable and 10x100s kick w/board on 2:00 was not.
My ankles are moderately flexible for a normal person. A few years ago I did ankle stretches regularly to try and improve my kick. Sadly there was no significant change.
I though I would be the extreme example of stone ankles. Congratulations, your spread is even greater than mine!
Thank you. I am very good at being very bad at kicking.
Have you tried kicking without shoes on? :)
Sorry to pile it on. I just couldn't resist.
It always amazes me that even DISTANCE people can kick faster than me.
It always amazes me that even DISTANCE people can kick faster than me.
Maybe you are more of a distance swimmer than you want to admit. Afterall, you have a lot in common with the UNC alums on this forum. They are distance swimmers that don't do much flutter kicking in freestyle. Maybe it's just a unc thing then.
Extracting data from the posts to this thread yields this distribution:
time diff: frequency
10-19: 1
20-29: 4
30-39: 4
40-49: 3
50-59: 1
60-69: 1
70&up: 1
My first impression was that there is no obvious correlation of the time difference to swimming speed. On the other hand, there are only two posts from people who I am reasonably certain are slower swimmers than I, and they both reported a larger difference than I did. (I am pretty much exactly agerage, so these two are below-average kickers.)
Other observations:
A few people noted their difference for breaststroke and in all cases it was smaller than for flutter kick. This makes sense as more of the propulsion comes from the kick in breaststroke than in freestyle. The same should be true in backstroke, but to a lesser degree, and this is consistent with the only post that reports about backstroke.
Four posts commented on the difference for DK. Two reported DK as much faster than flutter, two reported DK as much slower. I would join the second group. Again no obviousl correlation. One of the slow DKers is a very fine butterflyer, as is one of the fastest DKers.
For specifics, how are the kicking turns being accomplished? Do you touch the wall, face the other way, then push off? Or flip-turn with a board somehow, then do a few dolphins before flutter kicking again?
For specifics, how are the kicking turns being accomplished? Do you touch the wall, face the other way, then push off? Or flip-turn with a board somehow, then do a few dolphins before flutter kicking again?
With a board: open turn, no pulling. When I'm doing flutter kick, no dolphins (but I'm usually doing DK).
So here's an interesting postal event that is relevant to this thread: 400 kick for time (and the rules specifically say no pulls or flip turns, and that a board must be used).
www.usms.org/.../event.php
Kick to the wall, open turn. No pulling on the lane line, no stroke into the wall, no dolphin kick.
For me: flutter kick, with board, no DK. I consider taking a pull to be cheating. (Caveat: As I approach the wall, I remove one hand from the board and reach for the gutter, while simultaneously turning the board toward the other end of the pool. This turning of the board does have a small propulsive effect into the wall, but I definitely do not pull with the free hand.) I've noticed that in the pool where I train, many of the "fast" kickers are actually very fine pullers;)
I use the same strategy for fly and *** kick, but back kick I do streamline NB and I do flip turns with SDK.
5x100 on 2:15 SCM was the goal, missed the first one so I changed the interval.
Did 5x100 on 2:25 went 2:17, 2:19, 2:13*, 2:20, 2:19
* I think I made a mistake and it was actually a 18 or 23.
So I am a +70 kicker or +93%.
For specifics, how are the kicking turns being accomplished? Do you touch the wall, face the other way, then push off? Or flip-turn with a board somehow, then do a few dolphins before flutter kicking again?
Kick to the wall, open turn. No pulling on the lane line, no stroke into the wall, no dolphin kick.
I did my kicking test set today in age group practice.
10 x 100 Flutter Kick w/ board @ 2:00 BEST AVG.
no pulling into the walls, aside from dropping the kickboard around to reach the wall with the other hand.
Went 1:41 avg. with a best of 1:38 and a non-best of 1:42. I'm sure I could blast 1 or 2 much faster, but to maintain an average that's not too bad.
NOTE: My former BASE time for swimming free sets was 1:15/100, which I'm sure can probably be dropped down to 1:10/100 now.
