2012 Div 1 NCAAs

An event like the 400 IM that has 17 invited swimmers out of 28 that made the B cut has one of the largest % of men invited by event. According to the uncut psych sheet, 103 swimmers made the B cut in the 400 IM. Not 28.

Skip is amazing. :dedhorse: I highly doubt that even potential male NCAA qualifiers have noticed or advanced this thesis, Jimby ... And there is one way that males can drop more time at taper than women -- shaving. Shaving makes virtually no difference for women and a huge difference for men. :-P If I can swim faster now than I did with tech suits, so can you. You just may have to add some HIT yards to the slow il garbagio. Point 1. There are many endeavors, including but not limited to, Internet entertainment, where shaving makes a substantial difference in women's performance. Point 2. My argument, Leslie, is that you women are still swimming in virtually unchanged tech suits! There is a little less floatation, yes, and the lower legs are not covered, and (until the closed back suits) you have a bit less coverage on the back, but the suits you now wear are essentially indistinguishable from early to mid-term high tech body suits. It is the percentage of the body covered that is the single most important factor! You are comparing Granny Smiths to Red Delicious Apples. We guys are comparing Granny Smiths to wildebeests. Point 3: Hold no man responsible for what he says in his grief. www.quotationspage.com/.../icon_blank.gif The Talmud

The figure of 270 men and 322 Women has been around since 2006. But in the past 6 years, the NCAA never invites this amount. This year its 235 Men from 42 teams and 281 women from 64 teams.Skip, the 272 and 322 are for swimming AND diving. As noted before, 35 men’s and 41 women’s divers are invited. Men’s: 235 swimmers + 35 divers = 270 men Women’s: 281 swimmers + 41 divers = 322 women And yes the difference between men’s total and women’s total is based on the number of Division 1 men’s and women’s swimming programs, relative to the number of other Division 1 varsity sports programs.

Point 2. My argument, Leslie, is that you women are still swimming in virtually unchanged tech suits! Now, this is just false. Gone are: lower leg coverage, back coverage, zippers (which provide much more compression for the parts that must legally be covered), compression from the different material, and float. Most women have, in fact, been swimming slower. You need to make your peace with the fact that you can't dress like a woman. Be happy you get the big shaving time drop and move on!

According to the uncut psych sheet, 103 swimmers made the B cut in the 400 IM. Not 28. Mr. That Guy: I have linked where I got this information and it was the DIV 1 Men's psych sheet that I believe Ande linked and its here on page 3 www.usaswimming.org/.../DI Men - Psych Sheet.pdf The uncut psych sheet that you are referring to here www.usaswimming.org/.../DI Men - Entry List.pdf What I was referring to is the individuals that made the B cut that were invited. The A standard time in the 400 IM is 3:43.68 and the B standard is 3:54.86 and the last swimmer invited was a 3:47.48 for the 17th spot. They only went 10 deep for consideration and my guess is that these other swimmers either made an A or B cut in another event or were part of a relay and made a cut as well. The point I was trying to make and maybe poorly is that not all events will have the same % of entrants that make the B cut invited into the meet. The 400 IM has 28 swimmers in the event out of 103 that made the cut for a 27.2% invitation rate. The 50 Free has 83 swimmers in the event out of 139 that made the cut for a 59.7%. Why is that? I really don't know. I don't think they are discriminating against distance swimmers and favoring sprinters and it might be a time line issue with the meet. The relays are a fixed amount so that % is consistent throughout.

Skip, the 272 and 322 are for swimming AND diving. As noted before, 35 men’s and 41 women’s divers are invited. Men’s: 235 swimmers + 35 divers = 270 men Women’s: 281 swimmers + 41 divers = 322 women And yes the difference between men’s total and women’s total is based on the number of Division 1 men’s and women’s swimming programs, relative to the number of other Division 1 varsity sports programs. I forgot about the diving and I shouldn't because that is 3 scored events and can make a difference in the outcome and I remember both Texas and Auburn being helped by this in one of there Championships.

Wait, what? Where did you find this? Who is Bradley Tandy? www.sportstiming.com/.../

Skip, you never cease to amaze me with your knowledge of swimming minutiae, history, and lore. Question 1: does the fact that women appear to have qualified at higher rates then men support my contention that changes in FINA legal swimwear has affected men's times more deleteriously than women's? And if so, could you please communicate to dearest Leslie just how much things have changed for us fellows--and how little they have changed for the womenfolk? Question 2: Given your expertise in deciphering NCAA regulations, I was hoping you might deconstruct a few quotes from the Talmud that I find puzzling. Beware of too much laughter, for it deadens the mind and produces oblivion. www.quotationspage.com/.../icon_blank.gif The TalmudInstinctively, I sense this is true. But why then are there so many great Jewish comedians? Is this a prophetic smackdown of Seinfeld, Louie, and Curb Your Enthusiasm? Why would God do such a thing to the Chosen People?Until a child is one year old it is incapable of sin. www.quotationspage.com/.../icon_blank.gif The TalmudIs there some sort of book end to this? I am about to enter my first FINA 60-64 age group competition, God be willing and I do not ruin myself with laughter's oblivion before then. I am FINA-Three Score. Surely, as one approaches the years of ones dotage, there comes a time when his cognitive and moral capacities decline--bell-shaped curve-like--back towards the capacities of his toddler years. When, I ask you, will I once again be incapable of sin? (It cannot happen too soon!) Thanks, Skip! And Rich, please feel free to contribute your own Talmudic insights to these two puzzling passages. To answer question 1, the Women's meet is going to be larger because of the larger NCAA swimming programs as compared to Men like Rob said. The way they set the A and B standards reflect that because there are more Women qualifiers and with that they make the invitation at 30 for Women and 17 for Men. After the 30 and 17 invitation marks it depends on if a swimmer qualified in other events or if they made a relay and made the B standard, then he or she gets invited regardless of where they rank. The NCAA draws the line at where that B cut will stop and its different for different events. I have always believed that suits made a bigger difference in the Long Course World Championship events. Most of the colleges did not race with tech suits during the dual meet season. The times for the NCAA Championship Meets were obviously faster but only in 2009 and only a few teams had access to the Jaked suits. To prove this if you look at the NCAA Records, most of the neoprene records have been broken but there are some that may be there for a while. Tyler Clary's 400 IM record of 3:35.98 that just barely broke the Phelps American Record at 3:36.26 is one where the suit made a difference. Some swimmers swam better than others and some are very close to what they did with the suits. Most of the rest of the Men's records swimmers have been within a half a second without the suits. In the women, Vollmer in the 200 Free, Breeden in the 200 Fly, and Soni in the 200 *** have tech suit records from 2009 and I don't believe any of these records are out of reach for any of the current swimmers now. Two relay records from 2009 went down with Stanford going 1:15.26 last year in the Men's 200 Free Relay and Cal going 6:52.69 in the Women's 800 Free Relay. I think with Men master swimmers, especially with yourself and myself is that we could use covered suits for years. Until the summer of 2010, I had always worn a covered suit for any tapered meet and the last time I didn't was the 1994 Buffalo Nationals. It went from S2000, Aquablade, FS1, FS2, LZR, and then Neoprene. The big adjustment for us was going uncovered from the belly up and that was an adjustment for some not so for others. Since Women have always worn covered suits, the adjustment was the material change and I don't know what value to put on that if any. There was a rumor that covered suits were going to come back for Men about 2 years ago and FINA maybe would consider it but since that time I do not believe that is going to happen and Men will never be able to swim with covered suits like the past. I will let others answer question 2 because I am not intellectual enough.

Wait, what? Where did you find this? Who is Bradley Tandy? Both of the 200 Relays are impressive with the 200 FR a bit better. It will be interesting to see if these times (200 FR - 1:17.70 220 MD- 1:26.65) score in the consolation heats at NCAA. Bradley Tandy will be a good recruit if he transfers and maybe we will see him at some top Div 1 program.

NJCAA's are this weekend. This is rather impressive; an NJCAA record leadoff and an NJCAA record relay. Also, @ 1:17.70, these guys would be #8 on the D1 psych sheet! Event 8 Men 200 Yard Freestyle Relay ================================================================================== NJCAA: 1:18.78 2009 , Indian River SC E Walling, K Wyman, N Hein, N Schwartz School Seed Finals Points ================================================================================== 1 Indian River Sta 'A' 1:23.11 1:17.70 64 1) Tandy, Bradley 20 2) Mosley, Logan 20 3) Flores, Luis 17 4) Weir, Caleb 20 19.06 38.86 (19.80) 58.36 (19.50) 1:17.70 (19.34) Wait, what? Where did you find this? Who is Bradley Tandy?