Yes. As in, the competition course (which had bulkheads) was too short for top ten or records.
Fair enough. Thanks for the info Chris. I now return you to your regularly scheduled :bliss:
I read those posts previously, but thank you. I assume that there was some problem. I have not been told anything officially. However, as a general rule, the regulations of the jurisdiction where the swim took place apply. The Canadian Nationals were a FINA meet held under the rules of the jurisdiction where the meet took place. The USMS rules could not apply. The meet was accredited and the swims were legal. I am sure the distance was correct.
Officially I have not heard anything, I think that if the swim was legal and the jurisdiction caccepts the swim thenUSMS should accept it. Unless there was some fraud or competitive advantage associated with the circumstances of the swim. If the pool was short of course the swim should not count, but no one is saying that. I do not blame the Canadians. I guess I will wait to hear the "official" version of the story. I will post whatever story they give me.
Does anyone know what the technical deficiency is?
In another thread, jaadams1 posted a link to the minutes of the February 26, 2012 meeting of the Records & Tabulations Committee:
www.usms.org/.../records-2012-2-26-1.pdf
The relevant section:
Discussion on whether to apply for a Rules Exemption to include Canadian 2011 SCM Nationals in the SCM 2011 Top Ten lists
There are three reasons these times were not included:
1. The submission deadline was missed (violates Article 105.1.2).　
2. It is the responsibility of the swimmer to submit times with complete documentation to the appropriate LMSC Top 10 recorder (violates Article 202.2).
3. Pool measurement requirements were not met (violates Article 105.1.7C-D).
A motion is proposed to accept 2011 Canadian SCM National results ... The motion fails by a vote of 4-3.
That looks pretty official to me.
However, as a general rule, the regulations of the jurisdiction where the swim took place apply. The Canadian Nationals were a FINA meet held under the rules of the jurisdiction where the meet took place. The USMS rules could not apply.
Based on other posts on this same topic this is not correct, unfortunately. For international swims to count for Top Ten or USMS records apparently the USMS measurement rules must be met. If you look at the pdf attached in Swimosaur's post you'll see there was a recent proposal to change the rules to match what you said, but that's just a proposal for now.
Leslie, no one has officially told me that. I am going on what I have heard so far.Jack,
From whom have you asked for “official notification”?
And through what means did you make your request?
However, as a general rule, the regulations of the jurisdiction where the swim took place apply. The Canadian Nationals were a FINA meet held under the rules of the jurisdiction where the meet took place. The USMS rules could not apply. The meet was accredited and the swims were legal. I am sure the distance was correct.
Officially I have not heard anything, I think that if the swim was legal and the jurisdiction caccepts the swim thenUSMS should accept it. Unless there was some fraud or competitive advantage associated with the circumstances of the swim. If the pool was short of course the swim should not count, but no one is saying that. I do not blame the Canadians. I guess I will wait to hear the "official" version of the story. I will post whatever story they give me.
I don't know what you mean by "official version." The 2011 SCM lists are now the final, official version. The Records and Tabulation Committee considered whether to ask for a rules exception; the outcome is in the link to the minutes that Swimosaur posted.
The swims were legal for FINA purposes and accepted as such. They were not, however, performed in accordance to USMS rules and were not accepted by us. The situation is very similar to what would have happened if it had been a USA-S meet and had been run according to their measurement standards: both USA-S and Swim Canada have different measurement standards than USMS. For a swim in either meet to count for USMS purposes, the USMS measurement standards have to be met. In this case: the meet was held in a pool with a movable bulkhead, and bulkhead placement was not verified after each session of the meet, as per USMS rules.
I, too, don't "blame" Canada: they followed their own rules and FINA's. I don't expect them to be aware of and follow the rules of all the national governing bodies represented by the non-Canadian swimmers at the meet.
The R&T Committee happens to agree with you that swims that are acceptable to FINA should be acceptable to USMS and we will be proposing a Rule to reflect that. But we have to adhere to the rules as they exist at the time of the swim.
I just want to express my sincere condolences to all swimmers who had inadmissible TT times through no fault of their own.I have had it happen to me before and it is :censor:.
