distance swimmers shorted

1: Allow distance swimmers who want to enter both the 1000 and 1650, to only enter two other races (for a total of 4, rather than 6 races). If time restrictions force everyone else to drop their 6th race, then people in both 1000 & 1650 would have to drop to 3 total races. I don't like this because it sort of implies distance swimmers are taking up more than their "fair share" of the competition time. 2: Make a second set of faster qualifying times for the 1000 and 1650 for people who want to do both. If you only want to do one or the other, then only the standard QTs apply to you. If you want to do both, however, you would have to meet the faster QTs for both races. This seems reasonable.

Disclaimer: I've not attended Nationals in the US, so feel free to ignore me! In the UK, where granted, there are a lot less swimmers - 500 or so, they run Nationals over 3 days with 7 sessions: Friday afternoon is the 1500 only, and is mixed, then they have Friday evening, 3 sessions on Saturday, making the Saturday evening one short if possible to allow for the all important social that goes on, and 2 sessions on the Sunday, with the 800 being in one of the Sunday sessions. They also completely time-seed the field, so you are not swimming with your age group, simply people your speed. So it is kind of humbling to swim next to a 60 year old record holder, but its also kind of cool! And they run 2 courses one pool for men and one for women (it alternates each year). Often the mens pool is running longer than the women's due to more entrants, but it never seemed too bad - and once the women had finished their session, that pool would open for warm-up. The 1500 is swum with odd heats in one pool and even heats in the other. So interesting to note the differences and similarities - I always wondered why the 1650 and 1000 were together at the start of the meet, rather than having the 1000 as the final event. Then everyone not wanting to watch more distance freestyle could go home.

This seems reasonable. What about the higher age groups who do not have QT's?

The 80-84 age group has 45 plus minute qualifying times which is not going to help shorten a meet. Last nationals I did that had both was Mission Viejo--800 first day and 1500 on Monday. If host is willing to sit around for another day, I would do it. To do both and contain it to a reasonable time, much faster qualifying times would have to be in place and the threat of a hook if one falls off pace.:) Somone much wiser than me said she knew it was time to stop swimming a particular event when she heard polite clapping afterwards...good advice.

Adding a day to the meet for one more event? Maybe you'd get some more distance folks but I bet that there would be many more who would opt for zones (or whatever) instead. Probably me among them; I have a hard enough time "selling" my wife on nationals as it is, since she has to be a single mom while I am away.Chris, while I "get" this and understand the pain and significant negotiations required to make a 4 day meet, in effect, EVERY single year and EVERY single Nationals, ONLY the distance swimmers are asked to commit to a 4 day meet. That hardly seems fair. A better solution would be to either alternate meet schedules so that some years the distance events were on, say, Friday, OR put forth a full 4 day schedule with the 1650 at the end of the 1st (or 4th) day and the 1000 at the end of the 4th (or 1st) day.

atleast all the distance events are offered at the US nationals. over here in sweden our nationals (only 450-550 swimmers) is bunched into 4 sessions. Friday afternoon through sunday lunch. odd years the men swim the 1500 and women the 800 and even years men the 800 and women the 1500. same thing with the 400 and 200 IM. the year you can swim the 800 is the year you can swim the 400 IM.

I have to say the idea of swimming a 1500 or 1650 as the last event of a meet sounds awful. I kind of like getting the distance events done with the first day. I guess I'm not a real distance swimmer because I don't understand the appeal of wanting to swim both distance events! :)

Having never been a meet director, I'm not sure I can really offer anything useful, but here goes: Currently, I think USMS national meets allow people to enter 3 races without qualifying for any of them. Basically, unqualified swimmers ARE allowed to enter, but to save time, their entries are limited in number. Could we make similar compromises with distance swimmers, like the 2 suggestions below? 1: Allow distance swimmers who want to enter both the 1000 and 1650, to only enter two other races (for a total of 4, rather than 6 races). If time restrictions force everyone else to drop their 6th race, then people in both 1000 & 1650 would have to drop to 3 total races. At least in my own case, I would gladly give up my right to do 3 shorter races (which I'm not really that good at anyway) if it meant I could do one more distance race. That's really what distance people train for. -AND/OR- 2: Make a second set of faster qualifying times for the 1000 and 1650 for people who want to do both. If you only want to do one or the other, then only the standard QTs apply to you. If you want to do both, however, you would have to meet the faster QTs for both races. The faster set of QTs for both races probably wouldn’t need to be super-fast, just fast enough to keep the meet moving along. I guess numbers would have to be crunched to determine the faster QTs, though. Devil’s in the details. In the case of both suggestions above, the 1000 and 1650 would preferably no longer be on the same day; it doesn’t make much sense to swim both if you have to do them so close together. I know, b/c I’ve done that at YMCA masters nationals. But if they have to be on the same day, then so be it; at least you would be able to do both races. And anyone doing both races would probably be equally tired when the 2nd race rolled around. I also think it would be a good idea to rescind the “swim 3 races without qualifying for them” rule for any race 400 and longer. After all, why be inclusive of un-qualified swimmers at the expense of deserving qualified distance swimmers, including the super-fast distance swimmers like Laurie Hug, Ethan Saulnier, Chris Derks, et al? Non-qualifiers can still enter any 3 of the shorter races if they like. This would allow USMS to remain inclusive of its slowest members while no longer excluding its distance people. Any thoughts? I’d be excited to hear if this is feasible from people who have actually been meet directors.

There are a lot of good pro and con arguments on this thread but this is the one I basically side with. Waiting until the last day to swim the hardest event would be awful. I look at it completely in reverse -- why screw up the rest of my meet by trashing myself on the 1650 on the 1st day of the meet? When I return to distance events this fall and spring, I'll almost for sure enter the 1000 on the 1st day of Nationals because it takes so much less out of me than the 1650 (primarily because I still don't train enough to effectively race either!). My preferred 4 day race format at Nationals would be something like: Day 1 - 1000 free Day 2 - 400 IM and 200 free Day 3 - 500 free and 200 IM Day 4 - 1650 free You can easily find USAS meets that have a format similar to this ...

I look at it completely in reverse -- why screw up the rest of my meet by trashing myself on the 1650 on the 1st day of the meet? When I return to distance events this fall and spring, I'll almost for sure enter the 1000 on the 1st day of Nationals because it takes so much less out of me than the 1650 (primarily because I still don't train enough to effectively race either!). My preferred 4 day race format at Nationals would be something like: Day 1 - 1000 free Day 2 - 400 IM and 200 free Day 3 - 500 free and 200 IM Day 4 - 1650 free You can easily find USAS meets that have a format similar to this ... First, kids are bionic. I'm old and feeble. That would actually be a reasonable meet set-up, to be honest.