first of all, congrats to the meet directors and all the volunteers on a job well done. so organized and efficient!! very impressive. the only thing i wish someone could explain to me is why the usms champ. committee changed the team scoring from large, medium and small team to clumping everyone in the same category. seems extremely unfair to have what i call "real teams" competing against state mega teams. there is no possibility for "real teams" to ever come close to competing against them. if you are going to give team awards at the end of the meet, is there any way you can do it fairly? our team is extremely proud to have gotten as many team members as we did to go to natls. (most of them for the first time), but unfortunately they were very disillusioned (as was i) with the idea that we would be competing against state teams. as one of the coaches i didn't have an explanation. even though we were very proud of our 7th place finish in men's division, and our 12th place in combined, we were only one of a few "real teams" in the top ten. would appreciate responses. maybe even someone from the champ.committee could explain how they felt this scoring system would be more fair to the majority of swimmers. then i can pass it along to my teammates.. i don't want them to be so disillusioned that they lose interest in attending any future natls. thanks
What is unfair about dividing the total number of points scored by a team by the number of swimmers that actually attended the meet on that team?
For example if WCM had 40 swimmers entered and only 35 swam and those 35 scored 600 pts... divide 600 by 35...
That way you have an actual TEAM score. So even if a swimmer didn't actually score a point they would be part of the formulation.
It just seems to me the most cut and dry formula. That way there is not an advantage to any team no matter how many hundred they bring!!!! It would be about the quality of the swims.
XXL, XL, L, M, S, XS, XXS is too many divisions... I think it would almost make it less important of special to win one with so many divisions, which would kind make it almost pointless to keep team score at all.
Even the score/total numbers of swimmers is flawed because whats to stop a team like team TYR from swimming as such. With such a high concentration of dominating swimmers how could they NOT win?
All interesting reading...
Unless there is a definative definition for club created by the USMS governing board that will resolve geographic boundaries, you cannot and will not prevent state mega-teams (like Team Illinois Masters), or cross-country teams (like Olympic) or even corporate sponsored teams (like TYR).
The issue is, there are no rules for formation, other than registering with an LMSC and paying the fee.
All that said, you are left with setting some arbitrary boundaries based on head-count, or "splashes" if you want to have "team scores" at Nats.
Unless there is a definative definition for club created by the USMS governing board that will resolve geographic boundaries, you cannot and will not prevent state .. . cross-country teams (like Olympic). . ..
Matt:
I was wondering how you define a cross country team. I was looking my latest copy of team registration and The Olympic Club has 112 members, only five of whom live out of the Pacific Masters region. Of those five, one competed on the TOC team in Federal Way and none competed in Houston.(the one who competed in Federal Way had lived in Pacific for many years before moving to southern California).
(Is this really perception over reality? - just a question.)
michael
Paul:
The results of the Legislation, namely L2 failed. You can read the changes here www.usms.org/.../leg-2007-9-28-4.pdf
I have not seen you at the convention in the last couple of years and some of the ideas you have come up with in the last two days, could be ideas that the Marketing Committee could use. I know you and John are members of the Marketing committee and you could get the ball rolling on some of these ideas. Maybe you could join the branding task force that is part of the USMS Strategic Plan
Frank....so can you give us the "Readers digest" version as to why this failed? This is an extremely important rule change/update....can't believe that something couldn't be put together!
I'm pretty sure that if John & showed up at a convention it would be very similar to the scene in Young Frankenstein with the "villagers" chasing us down with torches burning!
Paul:
The results of the Legislation, namely L2 failed. You can read the changes here www.usms.org/.../leg-2007-9-28-4.pdf
Paul,
It failed by about 4 or 5 votes - it needed 2/3 "yes" votes to pass due to the off year timing. We hope with some clarification and minor tweaks, we can get it (or something similar in intention) to pass next year in Atlanta. It will require a 50% "yes" plus 1 vote for passage. Perhaps you can be the 1 additional vote?
Paul,
It failed by about 4 or 5 votes - it needed 2/3 "yes" votes to pass due to the off year timing. We hope with some clarification and minor tweaks, we can get it (or something similar in intention) to pass next year in Atlanta. It will require a 50% "yes" plus 1 vote for passage. Perhaps you can be the 1 additional vote?
Jim..I think I'm a bit of an enigma to many in USMS.....I love this sport but won't hesitate to challenge what I think needs to be challenged....I love 90% of what we are...but am completely frustrated by how a hard change is!
I attended convention and came away thinking that there were a lot of very motivated/hard working people but that the lack of a clear "mission statement" meant that things like this team size/make up intitative would fail most of the time.
Right now I'm trying my best to help as much as possible at the local level...work always makes time a challenge but I'm starting to think that the old saying "all politics are local" may make some sense with regard to our sport.
Plus...I'm afraid of fire/torches! :D
As for the 2009 nationals bids....as is being discussed on a couple of other threads we need to find a way to make those meets more fun, in great locations and most importantly a profit maker for the hosts...Agreed,
Mark Gill and others are working to get a bid from San Juan PR for LCN. They recently held the Pan American Masters there; it is a phenomenal pool (very similar to the Atlanta Olympic design), San Juan is great vacation destination, and the local hosts know how to run a FUN meet!
