team scoring

How does USS score? According to the most recent results on the USA Swimming web site, they appear to be scoring in three divisions: men, women, and combined. In each division, the club with the most points wins. They also have high-point scoring for men and women. "USS", now called USA Swimming, requires all athletes to register in the LSC in which they reside. They must achieve qualifying times to attend Nationals, and the organization has a system to verify that athletes have achieved qualifying standards. Although this model works very well for USA Swimming, requiring in-LMSC registration and enforcing qualifying times may not be the best fit for USMS.

And only 60 team banners to present? Mark Gill should be able to announce these in about the time it takes me to swim a 1650 (or 1500 LCM). But, I’m willing to give it a go.

Rob....so only give it out to top 3...I was (for a change) trying to be nice!

Actually, what Pacific tried to do in suggesting this legislation was to create two divisions, like Paul is suggesting (and like NCAA division 1, Divsion 2 and Division 3) for National competitions. Obviously, from the notes in this discussion forum, that concept did not come across clearly. In looking over the posts on this forum, clearly people are not happy with the existing scoring methods, so let's try something different. As the proposal was drafted, you would always be on a "club". For competition at Nationals, there would be a subset of clubs, called a "Regional Club", and those would compete in a separate division. If we want to call it an "open division" that is another way to accomplish this concept. Here's how the two divisions would be determined. Where your USMS registration card lists you as a member of a club, and you always compete with that same club (whether at meets inside your LMSC or at meets out of your LMSC, like Nationals), then you are on a "club team", and at Nationals, you would compete in the club team division. If you compete for a different entity at the meets that are held inside your LMSC than the club that is listed on your USMS registration card (for example, at your LMSC championship meet you compete under the name of your workout group, but at Nationals, all those workout groups combine and you compete with the team listed on your registration card), then you would be on a Regional team for Nationals and would compete in the regional team division. Each division would have small medium and large awards, based on the number of actual swimmers representing the club at the meet. So if a club only sent a handfull of swimmers to a Nationals, they would be in the small team group, but if the meet was close to home, and they had a lot of competitors, they would be in a larger category. We can decide what number of awards makes sense once we decide what method to follow. Nothing in the proposed legislation dealt with club members residing outside the LMSC (because there are often good reasons why someone competes with a specific team -- they used to swim there, or are temporarily in another state). Nothing in the proposed legislation addressed regional relay teams. The point that the Pacific representatives were trying to make (and they were echoed by other HOD delegates) was that if you want to promote club participation in Nationals, make it a competition where they can succeed. Then the clubs can succeed, too. Let's get the principals down and then we can all work on the details. Leianne

Leianne, I want it even simpler thats why I said have an "Open" division which does not limit you to swimming for a team wear you live. If I want to swim next year with my old college alums that should be allowed...its fun, it gets people int the sport that may not currently be...or ever had. This would simply be a means of allowing a more competitive way for teams to attempt to win championships....and if Walnut Creek wants to "man up" and swim in the Open Division against regional teams more power to them! Relays are part of the formula and should be swam both Divisions at the same time for the most competitive possible scenario but scored in their respective Division.

Hi Paul, I agree, the more the merrier. Success at Nationals can translate into success for the clubs back home, and get more participants in the program. What Pacific was trying to do was make a different scoring proposal that took account of the comments on this discussion forum, and would not change the way USMS already registers swimmers across all the LMSCs. The L2 proposal would not change the way swimmers are registered, it would only change how Nationals are scored. Some of the LMScs (like NEM) have "workout groups" and some of them have both separate club teams and workout groups (like in Georgia). Pacific does not have any of these distinctions, we only have club teams. Leianne

Pacific does not have any of these distinctions, we only have club teams. Team TYR and TOC both pose some challenges to this I know....and having swam for Vail, TYR, CMS & now Arizona I've been on both sides of the situation. I'm also very aware why this change occurred after the Tempe nationals which sadly was a knee jerk reaction to team/coach who was playing a bit loose with regard to the sportsmanship clause (we don't have)! But I think we need what's best for the greater good....and we need to put it into a rule change thats about one paragraph long!

Hi Paul, First off, under the L2 proposal, you could swim with your college buddies -- nothing in the L2 proposal restricts where team members live. You just all have to register for the same club. Go email them and tell them to get back in the pool, Nationals in Texas are just around the corner! Second, I am not familiar with Team TYR, but I think (from previous posts on this forum) that The Olympic Club has 112 members, of whom only 5 (I think--check the prior postings) live outside the Pacific LMSC. I also know that to compete for TOC, you must be a dues paying member of their club. They would not qualify under the L2 proposal as a Regional Team -- they always swim under The Olympic Club, whether they are competing in Pacific meets or outside Pacific LMSC.....If Team TYR swimmers always compete as Team TYR, then they are also a club team. No rule change is going to be perfect, but given the stated dissatisfaction with the current system, we should try to improve the situation..... I agree that Rules should be simple --but they do need to address the concerns expressed by USMS management and the members of USMS.... Leianne ^^^

Every nationals, I copy the text results into an excel file. One tab for men, another for women. A third pulls data from both and adds everything. Since Excel is a great tool, I break out the formulas here. There are all kinds of ways to break down the results... points per # of swimmers per team; points by # of swims per team; points by # of swims per swimmer per team; the list goes on... points per swimmer can be misleading if a one-person team comes in and wins first places all over the place while it doesn't really mean anything, its my way of saying, "you know what FLAQ or PNA or whomever, you guys may have had a lot more swimmers in the water, but Terrapin Masters with our 8 people scored more points per swimmer than you, so HA!" personally, i don't really care about the points - i am just there to swim fast against myself and have a great time.

I stand corrected, but recall trying to register for a NJ club after I moved to Oregon, and they wouldn't let me. Things must've changed since then. So then there's the qualifying time thing... Bill....just say no to "earmarks" like QT's, number of splashes, etc. etc. Keep it simple.....2 Divisions; Open & Club with M's, W's and Combined Championships in each and scoring through 10th place.